16ga.com ~ View topic

Joined: 07 May 2011 Posts: 15

A local store has a Model 12, in 16ga of course. I'm not that familiar with them, so hopefully someone can help. Seems to be used but well cared for. Looks like 28", and is full choke. Blueing is about 70%, and the wood seems nice. Serial number is in the 7750 range. Has a couple of tiny rust spots, but I think they would pretty much clean up entirely. So....is there a ballpark figure of what it should run? And do I need it? (okay, I'm kidding about that one) Wink

Hello

Look here

http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/SearchResults.aspx?SearchType=0&Timeframe=0&Keywords=Win*+12+16*&Cat=3106&Items=50

Mike

Joined: 16 Sep 2006 Posts: 334

If 7750 is the complete serial# of the gun, it has a short chamber unless it has been opened up. If you are buying to shoot, you'll either need to have it opened up or shoot the short shells in it.

In my neck of the woods, they are going for about $400 in the described condition. It doesn't seem to matter much to the price if its a short chamber or long chamber. In unaltered condition they are bringing solid money...

Joined: 07 May 2011 Posts: 15

I'll go back and take another look, I guess. He was closing up yesterday, so I didn't have much time. If I recall the price was in the mid-$300 range, but I'm sure he'll deal. As I mentioned, I don't know them all that well, so if there are any trouble spots to look for please let me know. Obviously the bore and chamber will need to be looked at.

Joined: 07 May 2011 Posts: 15

Well, no surprise. I went back and took a good look. Definitely not reblued, I would guess 70% finish left. Wood has no cracks, etc, just dull in the grip area from handling. The bore looked fine. So, it was just begging me to buy it. Had to do a layaway, since there were too many other toys this month. The barrel markings don't mention the chamber size, so I'm wondering. Not a big thing, since I never seem to get out and shoot anymore. It's also got me curious because all the serial number sites show a date of 1913, but I see also that the 16ga didn't start until 1914. Oh well... anyway, it seems nice for a first model 1912. Very Happy

Member Joined: 29 Jul 2008 Posts: 278 Location: Texas

There are several issues here if it is a 16 gauge with that serial #. Check that number really close.

I guess it's possible that it is an early preproduction 16 gauge. If so, it would be considered rare.

It might have been converted from a 20 gauge, by changing the barrel, bolt and other internal parts? Not very likely.

Unless its been altered, it has a 2 9/16" chamber. No problem, there are plenty of the 2 1/2" 16 gauge shells available.
If it is unaltered, the lower front corner of the ejection port will have a 1/4" radius.

When you get the gun, check the barrel date. It is a two digit # located on the bottom of the barrel, just in front of the receiver. Very hard to see, and only from the right side of the gun. Need to clean the area and use a strong light.

If you can, post close up pictures of all of the markings.

Unless you see obvious issues my advice is buy, buy, buy. You can be sure of these universal truths: You will never be as popular as you were your senior year, your kids will never love you more than they did at 4 years old, and model 12's will never go out of style or become any more plentiful...

Joined: 07 May 2011 Posts: 15

Nohting wrong with it that I saw...I really got the impression it's been well cared for. i'm really interested in the apparent oddity with the serial number, but it could just be that the 16's were actually made earlier than is commonly thought.

Member Joined: 29 Jul 2008 Posts: 278 Location: Texas

Get the gun in hand, give it a closer check, as suggested, and report back to us (and with pictures).

Joined: 07 May 2011 Posts: 15

Finally paid off my 16ga Model 12. Still curious about this. The SN is 7761, which is supposed to be a 1913 SN, yet I read that the 16's didn't come out 'till 1914. I removed the butt stock---at the top of the receiver is now revealed "MNS" at the top, and below the tube for the stock bolt it says 16. The SN's on the two halves seem to be indentical. I heard that under the chamber area of the barrel, it should have the year, but what I see is "MNS" again, VP in an oval, the number 240, a small triangle with what appears to be the number one, and a number that could be either 3 or 6--hard to tell. Does any of this tell what year it was made? Not a big deal, but I'm curious. Rolling Eyes

Joined: 12 Sep 2010 Posts: 1975 Location: Maine

It's not unheard of for prototypes and pre-production models of just about anything to show up years after the fact and, as suggested upthread, that may be what you have.

I had something similar happen to me. Back in the days before EBay, I bought a used Heddon #13 bamboo flyrod from a guy who had posted it for sale on the internet. It was my intent to turn it into a banty rod using the top two sections and building a grip for them. It turned out to have the coveted brook trout Heddon decal, an odd mixture of hardware on the reel seat, and none of the expected pen script on the butt section. An expert on Heddons informed me I'd bought a prototype of the model 13 which, by virtue of that model's popularity, was proportionally even more rare than one might expect.

So, you mighta gotten real lucky, instead of just plain lucky.

Joined: 07 May 2011 Posts: 15

Let's hope! Very Happy

To be honest, though----it's not a big thing. It talked to me, asked me to take it home...... I'm gonna love it and call it George no matter what.

Member Joined: 14 Sep 2011 Posts: 15 Location: Visalia CA.

First of all you cant go wrong with a model 12! I have a bunch of them, The serial number mystery sounds like you have a first run gun. Winchester made a lot of small frame guns, and when they started the 16ga line they used the receivers they had already made. so 1913 16ga. Isn't a surprise.