16ga.com ~ View topic

I believe JP Sauer & Sohn relocated here post-war.
Does any one know the models of shotguns they produced then and what were the description of the models and differences between the models.
Thanks.

You'll probably get more responses at the German-Austrian section of doublegunshop. The 6th forum from the top.
http://www.doublegunshop.com/forums/ubbthreads.php

Joined: 31 Oct 2011 Posts: 12

Just a few notes from the book, "JP Sauer & Sohn, the Story of the Oldest Weapons Factory in Germany, established 1751" by Peter Ardmann and Rolf Kallmeyer, 2004 edition, that might answer some of your questions:

Sauer began in Eckernförde in 1951. Although the design drawings were still in Suhl, in the Russian zone, the Eckernförde technicians chose as the first gun to be produced the old (Suhl, pre-war) Model VIII. They took apart an existing example and drew up all their plans accordingly. By December of that year, new Model VIII's were being test-fired and by mid-1952 they were turning out 750 of these side-by-side shotguns a month.

The Soviet zone also began marketing Sauer Model VIII's made in Suhl for 300 DM, the west German firm, for 500 DM. (My hunting partner has one of the former incidently). In 1953 Sauer (West-G), introduced a simpler version of the Model VIII with no Greener top extention, no signal pins and a non-automatic safety. They also introduced around then the Model VIII E, an enhanced ejector version, then later a "Royal" version.

"Further innovations were the 'KIM' and 'Fox' weapons, (sic) produced for export from 1953. A year later, the M54 over-and-under (rifle)shotgun came out - the BBF 54".

My son shot his first duck with a SuS Model VIII made in 1929, a 16/65. It's still as tight as and weighs just 6 pounds 2 oz.

Thanks...I saw your respone on DGS.
My Sauer was from '54'...maybe '55'.
Standard VIII with Greener, indicators, and sideclips....the pretty standard model in 12 @ 6 1/2#.
Appreciate the further info.

Joined: 31 Oct 2011 Posts: 12

It certainly shows how quickly they got the factory back up and running, considering all their staff, bar the best engravers, were left back at Suhl, out of necessity, in the Russian zone.

Joined: 03 Apr 2008 Posts: 69 Location: Finland

Kiwi, does that book have any information about drillings made just after war?
I have one -54 Deluxe, 16/16/7x57R, and there´s not much information around...

Joined: 15 Jul 2010 Posts: 18

I own several sauers, including a -54 Eckernforde drilling, model 32. I would recommend a website called www.shotguns.se, where the author has listed among other things a list of models from sauer.(It's in english)

Can't connect to that www. but thanks, I'll try later.

Joined: 31 Oct 2011 Posts: 12

The Model S/53 Drilling was sold by Sauer from May 1953 onwards. It used a special new barrel hammering process which Sauer first started using in December 1952. (This was one of the reasons Weatherby went to Sauer to make his rifles, so he could boast he was the first to market this cold-hammering process in the US). It also meant that the barrels were particularly smooth, increasing their longevity. This process had been developed at the Berlin-Lübeck engineering works for manufacture of military weapons towards the end of the war and when Walter Spiegelberg bought Alket/Borsig hammer machines, Sauer were subsequently the first hunting gun manufacturer to offer this feature. The first produced Sauer Drillings were quickly sold out.

Apart from this, I think the post-war Sauer Drilling was little different to the pre-war Model 30 Drilling except for some cosmetic differences.

The Allies forade the use of the name Krupp on the barrels after 1945, so these were stamped instead (in German) Bochumer Association special barrel steel. Bochum was the place where this steel was produced. The history of the type of steel goes back to 1893 when the high-quality chrome-molybdenum steel was jointly developed by Sauer and Krupp and initially Sauer used it exclusively.

There were variants of the initial Drilling; the S/53K had a split cartridge extractor, the S/53D had a double-sear exchange safety as did the S/53DK. In 1956 the "improved Model 3000" followed. This offered more calibre choices for the rifle barrel and also the option of a Dural, (light metal), breech. The Lux had better enraving and a horn trigger guard and the "Ant" had barrels made from Boehler Antinit steel. It was possible to have a Model 3000 Lux Dur Ant, for instance, which combined all these features.

My own Model 3000 Drilling, built 1956, has a separate extractor for the rifle catridge, (so I think that makes it the "improved model"), and it's also 16/70,16/70 - 7x57R. The barrels are marked Bochumer Verein and are still mirror-finish, so I'm not sure how much better lasting the Antinit steel could be !

The Sauer Drilling was later modified to have a flat Baskule, (or receiever), and I don't have the exact date of this change but it was not later than 1967. I imagine the early split extractor was like those found on the Krieghoff Trumpf Drilling, where one extractor sits a little higher than the other shotgun extractor, and this also makes it easier to remove the fired rifle cartridge. Mind you, with tapered cases like the 7x57R or 8x57R and low pressures, they pretty much fall out anyway.

Joined: 31 Oct 2011 Posts: 12

That's how it reads to me.

“After 1945 the Allies forbade the name of Krupp and so this material was now named 'Bochumer Association special barrel steel'.

You'll also find that Zeiss (the optics makers), had similar restrictions and so many of the post-war Zeiss scopes were marked Hensoldt, which was the name of, (according to what I was told) a subsiduary firm. Later, the exact same models were marked Zeiss. My Drilling had the former Hensoldt, Wetzlar scope, which had fungus on it's front lens when sold to me. I found a Zeiss replacement which was identical.

This Drilling has no trouble with suitable ammunition staying well under 2" at 100 yards. The barrels, BYW, are the shorter "Kurz-Drilling ones at 60cm, (23,5/8").

Joined: 31 Oct 2011 Posts: 12

At some point, the Allies must have rescinded this. I've certainly seen "Krupp" marked on rifle barrels from the 1970's. I think once the Cold War heated up, and Germany was seen as the front line of any potential invasion of Western Europe, a lot of post WWII thinking about arming them got revised.

Joined: 15 Jul 2010 Posts: 18

Zeiss bought the Hensoldt brand (and probably the factory too) around 1925. They are still producing scopes under that name.

Joined: 31 Oct 2011 Posts: 12

Indeed, but I think only military scopes now. One of my hunting partners managed the Zeiss branch here in NZ, so you can imagine what we talked about Wink

Joined: 03 Apr 2008 Posts: 69 Location: Finland

So i have model 53. Thanks for information.
It´s variant Lux, with nice deer theme engravings.
Too bad woods are not same grade as engravings, they are very basic walnut.
I´ve been told it was not easy to get better wood in Germany early 50´s, right after war.
Bochum verein marked barrels btw.