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curveman
PostPosted: Sat Jun 17, 2006 6:28 pm  Reply with quote



Joined: 25 Jan 2006
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Location: Alaska

For the Rem 16 black hulls using the R16 wads ? How about with Herco or Unique ?

Thanks forward

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pezman1963
PostPosted: Sun Jun 18, 2006 11:01 pm  Reply with quote
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curveman wrote:
For the Rem 16 black hulls using the R16 wads ? How about with Herco or Unique ?

Thanks forward


How much shot & how fasts do you want to go??
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16gaugeguy
PostPosted: Mon Jun 19, 2006 7:47 am  Reply with quote
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for one ounce loads in these componants, you can't ask for better powder than Unique. Look into the Lyman shotshell reloading handbook. There you will find a load using an SP-16 wad with a 28 gauge card wad in the cup for filler. Just sub out the R16 wad instead. Its the same thing--a 1 ounce capacity wad. for a lighter weight load, look at the posts about the 7/8 ounce Green dot load in this same venue.
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curveman
PostPosted: Thu Jun 22, 2006 11:19 pm  Reply with quote



Joined: 25 Jan 2006
Posts: 17
Location: Alaska

16GG - Thanks for the post. I have three shotshell loading manuals, including a really old Lyman book. Does this black hull have a "seperate plastic basewad" ? I can find no listed loads utilizing a 28 gauge card wad. Would you please just cite the charge weight ?

I will check the 7/8 oz discussion. But, I'm looking for a 1 ounce load. There are lot's of other 1 oz loads listed at a variety of speeds for other cases Frankly I'd prefer to own the Federal cases, but they are so expensive to even obtain factory new loads, in order to reuse the cases.

Thanks again, I'm beginning to believe there must not be many new loads for these readily available black cases.

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16gaugeguy
PostPosted: Fri Jun 23, 2006 12:38 pm  Reply with quote
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Its in the newest Lyman's handbook. There are plenty of loads for the GL/SP case. Yes it is the one with the plastic base wad. Its called a polyformed hull as opposed to a compression formed one piece hull like the STS hull. It's been around for over 15 year now.

There is plenty of fairly recent useful 1 ounce load data for the case but you will need to substitute a Remington R16 wad for the now discontinued Winchester AA16 wad. An SP-16 wad with one 28 ga. card wad to shorten the shot cup will work as well as the R16.

We have been ordering R16 wads from Recob's now for over a year. Go get some. They are about the best 1 ounce wad available right now. the shot cup is deep enough to protect all the shot instead of only part. Patterns are superior because of this.

The pressures will be a bit lower, but velocities will be close. So the substitution is entirely safe. This will apply right across the entire spectrum of loads using the AA16 wad. Look at the most recent Alliant handbooks. If you don't have one, then call their 1-800 number and order one free. Same with Hodgedon.
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curveman
PostPosted: Fri Jun 23, 2006 11:34 pm  Reply with quote



Joined: 25 Jan 2006
Posts: 17
Location: Alaska

Great. I snagged a boat load of the R16's a while back. You know after you mentioned it, I do remember discussions about the AA16 subbing for the R16's safely. Thanks for reminding me There's a ton of old data for the AA16. Actually, I still have a couple of bags of them (glacier blue's).

You seem pretty happy with the R16. It's good to know about the pressures. Thanks. I'm excited to have all these R16's. I have two new (to me, anyway) Citori's, a Belgian A-5, And an Elsie in 16G. I'm in love...

I'm not familiar with the GL/SP reference. Are you saying Remington has been using a polyformed 16 gauge case model for the last 15 years ?

Later.

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Larry Brown
PostPosted: Sat Jun 24, 2006 5:02 am  Reply with quote
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Here's a 7/8 oz load I've had tested by Tom Armbrust, using the black Rem:

Win 209 primer, 15.5-16 grains Unique (used 2 different bushings), either R16 or SP16 wad. Pressure ran from 7900-8300 psi, velocity from mid-1100's to just over 1200 fps. Same load, WAA 16 wad, you'll kick the pressure up 3-400 psi, velocity around 1215 fps. All of those used Puffed Wheat overshot filler, although I doubt substituting a card would make any significant difference in velocity or pressure.
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16gaugeguy
PostPosted: Sat Jun 24, 2006 9:05 am  Reply with quote
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Curveman, and anyone else who reloads Remington hulls, all plastic walled Remington 16 ga. hulls have always been polyformed hulls. Remington has never made a compression formed one piece 16 ga. hull. All their 16 ga.hulls have had plastic base wads for over 15 years. These hulls all take a 209 sized primer and have identical inside capacities regardless of color or the number of crimp points.

Do not use any of the old style Remington hulls with fiber base wads. They take an obsolete 157* sized primer that has not been made for well over a decade now. Even if you can find these old primers, they hasve been laying around somewhere for probably at least 20 years. They are most likely junk by now. Squib loads and stuck wads are almost a certainty. Why waste time and money. Old guns are often fine. Old ammo, primers, and powder is not.
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curveman
PostPosted: Mon Jun 26, 2006 8:18 pm  Reply with quote



Joined: 25 Jan 2006
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Yes, I was thankful to retire my few remaining 57-157 primers long, long ago. Any information on the volumetric difference between the Rem. compression-formed and the polyformed cases ?

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16gaugeguy
PostPosted: Tue Jun 27, 2006 10:19 am  Reply with quote
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In Remington 16 ga. cases? there isn't any because compression formed ones don't exist. Wink.
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curveman
PostPosted: Tue Jun 27, 2006 7:09 pm  Reply with quote



Joined: 25 Jan 2006
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Oh, I get it. So the 57-157 cases were polyformed too ?

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16gaugeguy
PostPosted: Wed Jun 28, 2006 6:23 am  Reply with quote
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Yes. they had a fiber base wad instead of plastic. Any case that is formed of a seperate base wad pressed into a plastic tube with the metal head crimped on around the outside is a polyformed case. A compression formed case is molded in one integral piece. The metal head is then afixed to it, but there is no seperate base wad.

Federal Game load cases are an example of a polyformed plastic hull with a paper base wad. Fiocchi, Cheddite, and Remington 16 ga cases are polyformed cases with plastic base wads. The Remington STS case and the old Winchester AA cases are compression formed or molded, 1 piece cases with no seperate base wad.
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Jim McCann
PostPosted: Sun Jul 02, 2006 9:29 pm  Reply with quote
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I've been using Larry's load mentioned above with the WAA16 wads I have left, about 4,000 or so I guess? Nice load for skeet in my lightweight guns. And the puffed wheat is the only ceral "shot from guns!"

Jim
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Jim McCann
PostPosted: Sun Jul 02, 2006 9:29 pm  Reply with quote
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I've been using Larry's load mentioned above with the WAA16 wads I have left, about 4,000 or so I guess? Nice load for skeet in my lightweight guns. And the puffed wheat is the only ceral "shot from guns!" Says so right on the box.

Jim
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16gaugeguy
PostPosted: Wed Jul 05, 2006 5:02 am  Reply with quote
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you can say that again. Rolling Eyes Laughing
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