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< 16ga. Ammunition & Reloading ~ Here we go.... |
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Posted:
Tue Jul 18, 2006 11:24 am
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Member
Joined: 26 Jun 2005
Posts: 425
Location: Big D
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Pulled a recipe from the 16 ga reloading group cd, and I think I have all the components. I have the MEC 9000G (it's actually been sitting for almost a year ), and I think I'm ready to take the plunge. Here's the recipe and the question:
Rem Black Hull 2 ¾ 6 pt.7/8 oz.Unique16.0Win 209Rem SP-1611928066Armbrust Pressure/Velocity Tests 8-7-04
What, in your experience, would be the bushing # to throw 16 (grams?) of Unique? I have a #23: I carefully filled it with powder and then weighed it on my new powder scale (yes, I calibrated it). The scale read 2.13- (grams I think)! Does this mean I need a bushing about 7 or 8 times the volume? I am brand new to reloading, and want to be safe and do it right. Also with this wad, I believe I will need a filler. Larry I think uses puffed wheat or something akin. Would cocoa puffs produce a better dust cloud on late season clays?
Any help for the newbie would be appreciated.
PS- Part of my question might be answered by the difference between grains and grams, but I don't mind showing my ignorance and willingness to learn
Mike |
_________________ Consistency is the currency of credibility
Manufrance Ideal 314:
Barrel set 1- (choke) .000 , .007 , chamber 70mm
Barrel set 2- .025 , .047 , 65mm
Barrel set 3- .005, .015
Manufrance Ideal No. 5:
Choke: .000, .010, 70mm chambers |
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Posted:
Tue Jul 18, 2006 11:37 am
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Member
Joined: 14 Jan 2006
Posts: 1007
Location: Lancaster county, Pa
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Check your bushing chart supplied with your loader. It will tell you which bushing to use for 16 grains of powder. They are usually on the light side. Please don't put 16 bushings full of powder in that shotshell.You will need filler for that load. |
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Posted:
Tue Jul 18, 2006 11:50 am
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Member
Joined: 26 Jun 2005
Posts: 425
Location: Big D
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Well, I don't know how I could have gotten 16 bushings full into the hull, but thanks for the reply. Looks like, according to the weight table, a grain is .0648 grams. I will check my bushing chart.
Thanks,
Mike |
_________________ Consistency is the currency of credibility
Manufrance Ideal 314:
Barrel set 1- (choke) .000 , .007 , chamber 70mm
Barrel set 2- .025 , .047 , 65mm
Barrel set 3- .005, .015
Manufrance Ideal No. 5:
Choke: .000, .010, 70mm chambers |
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Posted:
Tue Jul 18, 2006 11:59 am
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Member
Joined: 05 Sep 2005
Posts: 87
Location: Idaho/ New Mexico
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it looks like 23 or 24 should be close to 16 GRAINS of unique.
bd |
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Posted:
Tue Jul 18, 2006 12:12 pm
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Member
Joined: 26 Jun 2005
Posts: 425
Location: Big D
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Thanks bd- I just looked at MEC's chart for unique and you are exactly right.
Mike |
_________________ Consistency is the currency of credibility
Manufrance Ideal 314:
Barrel set 1- (choke) .000 , .007 , chamber 70mm
Barrel set 2- .025 , .047 , 65mm
Barrel set 3- .005, .015
Manufrance Ideal No. 5:
Choke: .000, .010, 70mm chambers |
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Posted:
Tue Jul 18, 2006 1:01 pm
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Joined: 26 Dec 2005
Posts: 79
Location: Round Rock, TX
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MEC's chart will be too light; start at their recommended bushing, weight it, and work your way up the bushings until you find the one that throws your desired charge. |
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Posted:
Tue Jul 18, 2006 3:22 pm
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Member
Joined: 26 Apr 2005
Posts: 743
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WS, that's definitely GRAINS of powder, not grams. 16 Unique is what I use in my 7/8 oz reloads, and according to my powder scale, a MEC 24 bushing comes very close.
That might be my load. I've sent that formula to Armbrust using both the SP-16 and the R-16 wad. You can use either, very little difference in pressure or velocity, except you'll need more filler with the SP wad. That's one of my Puffed Wheat specials! |
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Posted:
Tue Jul 18, 2006 4:15 pm
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Member
Joined: 19 Aug 2005
Posts: 184
Location: Concordia, Kansas
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Wingshooter
NEVER WORK IN GRAMS WHEN DEALING WITH SMOKELESS POWDER!
Yes, the caps are intentional. If you have a true reloading scale (Lyman, RCBS, etc) it will have a be calibrated in grains if it is a mechanical one or the ability to measure in either Grains or Grams if it is an electric one.
Again, ALWAYS WORK IN GRAINS WHEN DEALING WITH SMOKELESS POWDER!
Forget doing the conversions. If your scale doesn't have the capability to work in Grains, sell it on e-bay to some dope dealer who needs a Gram scale and buy you a scale that is calibrated IN GRAINS!
Most bushings will run slightly on the light side. Run five cases through the machine throwing powder as part of the normal operation (just don't crimp the cases so that you can empty them. The weigh the individual powder charges and figure the average weight that your machine is throwing. If you change bushings (usually upward) do this until you have found a bushing that throws the charge that you want. I note in my loading manuals the actual throw charts of different bushings with different powders. Then if the load specifies what the bushing chart says should be a #23 bushing but I know that in my machine and with the lot of powder I am using I need a #25 to match the listed load, I will use the # 25, because I have tested and measured it and know that it is what I need.
I also check the powder charges at the start and every 15 rounds during the loading process to be doubly sure.
There are other variables, but these are the most important to remember.
Good Shooting
TMB
________
Ultimate fighter |
Last edited by brdhnt on Fri Feb 25, 2011 4:18 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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Posted:
Tue Jul 18, 2006 5:43 pm
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Member
Joined: 26 Jun 2005
Posts: 425
Location: Big D
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I checked the scale and it has a grain mode. The main reason (I may be mistaken or have overlooked it) grams even came up is because I only saw a number (on the printout for 16ga reloading group) for weight of the powder- no grain, grams, drams, metric tons- nothin'. Maybe it is just assumed everyone knows what it means, but you know what it means to assume. If it is there and I missed it, I apologize to the compilers. I need things spelled out, and am guilty of overlooking things (not birthdays or anniversaries though, as the conseqences could be as severe as putting 16 grams of powder in a Remington promo hull.
Larry, those wads you sold me- about how many puffed wheats per shell? Is it hot in Iowa? My morning coffee got hotter as the day wore on.
Mike |
_________________ Consistency is the currency of credibility
Manufrance Ideal 314:
Barrel set 1- (choke) .000 , .007 , chamber 70mm
Barrel set 2- .025 , .047 , 65mm
Barrel set 3- .005, .015
Manufrance Ideal No. 5:
Choke: .000, .010, 70mm chambers |
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Posted:
Wed Jul 19, 2006 9:40 am
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Member
Joined: 12 Mar 2005
Posts: 6535
Location: massachusetts
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Mike, please work out a loading routine that is both easy to remember, and efficient. It will save you a lot of headaches and maybe even a gun and some fingers. Forgetfulness and a lack of focus on the work can and will lead to trouble. Forunately, competative shooting has taught me to focus and concentrate. It has paid off in dividends-especially when I'm reloading. I also do not allow any distractions when I load including idle chitchat and phone calls. If I can't pay strict attention to loading, I don't do it until I can.
The Mec Grabber or 9000 will help stop double charges, plus, 16 grains of Unique is mild so even a bit more like 16.5 grains will not be a problem. However, under certain circumstances, you can throw a double charge and not know it on a progressive press. The occurance is to be avoided at all costs. If you do, or if the shot starts to spill over the wad on station 3, stop and check everything, before continuing. You might have a double charge. I put that shell aside after dumping the shot back into its bottle and cleaning up the machine from any spilled shot. I pull it apart later to salvage the wad, powder, and primer. I never crimp one of these mistakes closed. That is an accident waiting to happen.
I always use the exact same routine and have for 20 years now. I place my press on the reloading bench so two shell stackers of the correct gauge is immediately on the machine's right side (my left hand side). A small hamper or storage box of shells is to the right of the stackers. On the machine's left is a 3 pound margerine tub full of the right wads. If I'm using filler wads too, I place a 1 pound margerine tub in front of the bigger one containing my filler wads. I then fill the powder and shot bottles, and load the primer magazine Now I'm ready to go.
1. I pick up an empty shell and insert it with my left hand into station 1 after removing the loaded shell and dropping it into the stacker.
2. I then pick up a wad with my right and place it into the wad guide as I start to pull the loading lever down with my left. I watch the primer feed to make sure one drops correctly onto the shwell carrier and listen for the sound of the shot dropping into the case on station 4.
Then its handle up smoothly to a dead stop and repeat. I check the powder and shot levels after each 50 shells (two stackers worth) as well as the primers. I fill the shot and powder anytime its below the 3/4 empty level. This way, I never let the press run out of these things. I also use a powder baffle under the powder bottle. This helps insure a uniform powder charge. One of these gizmos is both cheap and easy to use. Its great insurance. I also weigh my powder charges to insure that the right powder bushing is in place. I've found that the powder baffle will usually require that you use a powder bushing 2 numbers higher than the chart shows. However, your drops will be near perfect every time with the baffle. BUT MAKE SURE TO CHECK BY WEIGHING. Never assume the chart or your hunch or my advice is right.
The only variation I use is to use both hands to pick up a wad and the filler wads simultaneously, insert the filler wads into the shot cup with my left hand, then place the wad with filler into the wad guide with my right as my left hand finds and operates the lever handle (step 2.)
I've been using this routine so long now that its second nature. I also leave five shells on my loader ready to go in various stages of completion, and cover the machine with a loose cloth dust cover. That way, I can start up immediately without having to do 5 handle pulls before the first shell is complete. The only time that happens is if and when I've set the machine up for a different load. |
Last edited by 16gaugeguy on Wed Jul 19, 2006 12:54 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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Posted:
Wed Jul 19, 2006 12:30 pm
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Member
Joined: 26 Apr 2005
Posts: 743
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Mike, just put in Puffed Wheat until you reach the bottom of the old crimp. You'll eventually be able to "eyeball" it so you get good crimps. Because Puffed Wheat crushes, it's hard to put in too much. |
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Posted:
Wed Jul 19, 2006 5:29 pm
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Member
Joined: 26 Jun 2005
Posts: 425
Location: Big D
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Thanks everyone, especially 16ga guy: unless you moonlight as a stenographer, I know how long it took to itemize your procedure and the focus necessary to avoid unwelcome events. What's a good source on a powder baffle? |
_________________ Consistency is the currency of credibility
Manufrance Ideal 314:
Barrel set 1- (choke) .000 , .007 , chamber 70mm
Barrel set 2- .025 , .047 , 65mm
Barrel set 3- .005, .015
Manufrance Ideal No. 5:
Choke: .000, .010, 70mm chambers |
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Posted:
Wed Jul 19, 2006 5:46 pm
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Member
Joined: 26 Jun 2005
Posts: 425
Location: Big D
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Hey LB-
I won't run a fowl of the authorities for baiting birds with the puffed wheat, will I? |
_________________ Consistency is the currency of credibility
Manufrance Ideal 314:
Barrel set 1- (choke) .000 , .007 , chamber 70mm
Barrel set 2- .025 , .047 , 65mm
Barrel set 3- .005, .015
Manufrance Ideal No. 5:
Choke: .000, .010, 70mm chambers |
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Posted:
Thu Jul 20, 2006 5:54 am
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Member
Joined: 13 Feb 2006
Posts: 110
Location: California
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Posted:
Thu Jul 20, 2006 6:00 am
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Member
Joined: 16 Jan 2006
Posts: 1008
Location: Sandy Lake, PA
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