Author |
Message |
< 16ga. General Discussion ~ Proof in the Pudding....or....Belly Up to the Bar. |
|
Posted:
Sun Jul 30, 2006 10:32 am
|
|
|
Member
Joined: 18 Nov 2005
Posts: 398
Location: S Fl
|
|
Ok, I'm officially confused. Need some help with European proof marks.
Here are the 3 16 ga guns causing my consternation.
1. Spanish sxs proved in 1963 @ 900 bars
2. English sxs proved in 1992 @900 bars
3. Spanish sxs proved in 1999 @ 1200 bars
It's my understanding that the guns are stamped with the max. service load pressure. Yes?
If so, this translates to 13,053 and 17,404 psi!!!
Both are way over Saami for 16 ga.
What average ammo pressure level would be suitable for a steady diet at each of these proof levels?
Thanks
Pete |
_________________ " .......you have learned patience and stubbornness and concentration on what you really want at the expense of what is there to shoot. You have learned that man can as easily be debased as ennobled by a sport....." |
|
|
|
|
|
|
Posted:
Sun Jul 30, 2006 12:55 pm
|
|
|
Member
Joined: 28 Dec 2005
Posts: 2016
Location: Glendale, AZ
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Posted:
Sun Jul 30, 2006 3:50 pm
|
|
|
Member
Joined: 08 Nov 2005
Posts: 3438
Location: Illinois
|
|
Dang with the belly up to the bar statement I was interested--I'm moving on now |
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Posted:
Sun Jul 30, 2006 6:26 pm
|
|
|
Member
Joined: 16 Feb 2006
Posts: 711
Location: Flagstaff, AZ
|
|
Pete,
Glad you are asking this question. It is one I have been thinking about asking myself.
I also have a couple Spanish SxS's. The AyA 4/53 16ga. made in 2003 says it is proofed for 1370 bars. Since 1 bar equals 14.5 psi that means the gun is proofed for 19,865 psi
An old 12ga AyA Yeoman that was made in the early 70's is stamped 900 Kgs. This follows the same row of symbols that the newer gun has but I don't understand the Kgs instead of bars unless somehow it was a mistake or they were marking them differently then. I am not concerned about the 16ga. as I am sure it will handle any load I am brave enough to shoot in a gun that weighs 6#-4oz, but I sure would like to know what the 12ga is safe to shoot. Might want to use it someday to shoot a pheasant and am wondering if it is safe for a 1 1/4oz 1220fps "piqeon load" of 10,000psi or less. Am waiting for the lightning bolt to strike after typing that last sentence Hope someone can help us here.
Dennis |
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Posted:
Sun Jul 30, 2006 9:12 pm
|
|
|
Member
Joined: 19 Aug 2005
Posts: 184
Location: Concordia, Kansas
|
|
Dennis,
Kgs is kilograms of pressure (millegrams per square centimeter x 1000) instead of pounds per square inch. If my conversion calculations are correct (.04 squared x 1000 x 2.2 x 900) 900 Kgs should equal about 13,080 PSI. There was a conversion table for this in one of the Hodgdon books a few years back, but I can't find the table (or the book) right now.
I would recommend calling Hodgden powder. One of their tech people should be able to do the calculations and tell you exactly what the proof is on your gun in psi.
TMB
________
FERRARI 512 HISTORY |
Last edited by brdhnt on Sat Feb 26, 2011 8:54 pm; edited 1 time in total |
|
|
|
|
|
|
Posted:
Mon Jul 31, 2006 7:37 am
|
|
|
Member
Joined: 18 Nov 2005
Posts: 398
Location: S Fl
|
|
Square Load,
About the only thing I'm pretty sure of in this topic is that 900 Kgs = 900 bar.
Some older guns are marked with the kgs, while since about '89 the European proof standards adopted the bar nomenclature. I think.
Pete |
_________________ " .......you have learned patience and stubbornness and concentration on what you really want at the expense of what is there to shoot. You have learned that man can as easily be debased as ennobled by a sport....." |
|
|
|
|
|
|
Posted:
Tue Aug 01, 2006 8:15 pm
|
|
|
Joined: 18 Sep 2005
Posts: 10
Location: Columbia, Missouri
|
|
From this page: http://www.sengpielaudio.com/calculatorPressure.htm
1 kgf/cm^2 = 0.9804 bar = 14.223 psi
This is largely on par with Pete's observation.
Kilogram force is a contrived unit much like the US pound force. It is the force exerted by one kilogram under earth's gravity. The US system actually has a true unit for force called the slug which is the poundforce divided by the gravitational acceleration.
Bar is a true unit of pressure equal to Pascal/100,000. Were it to exist, the true pressure unit in the US system would be the ssi, or slug per square inch. Conveniently, this unit could also be used to describe the population density of slimy critters. |
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Posted:
Tue Aug 01, 2006 10:05 pm
|
|
|
Member
Joined: 16 Feb 2006
Posts: 711
Location: Flagstaff, AZ
|
|
Wow ,
Not only do we have a great bunch of guys here, we also appear to have some very intelligent ones.
Thanks for the great answers everyone. Your responses certainly answered my question. My exposure to European guns is very limited and my knowledge of the Metric System is even worse, although I can use conversion tables when I know which formula to use. Sometimes that is the problem.
Thanks again,
Dennis |
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Posted:
Sun Aug 13, 2006 7:41 am
|
|
|
Member
Joined: 18 Nov 2005
Posts: 398
Location: S Fl
|
|
Just bringing this back to the top of the list, since the subject has been resurrected (sorry Drew) in other threads.
Pete |
_________________ " .......you have learned patience and stubbornness and concentration on what you really want at the expense of what is there to shoot. You have learned that man can as easily be debased as ennobled by a sport....." |
|
|
|
|
|
|
Posted:
Mon Aug 28, 2006 2:45 pm
|
|
|
Member
Joined: 18 Nov 2005
Posts: 398
Location: S Fl
|
|
Larry Brown has resolved a large portion of my quandary in this thread on the Doublegun BBS.
http://gunshop.com/ubb/ultimatebb.php?ubb=get_topic;f=1;t=024107
I can't say it's crystal clear, but it's certainly less muddy than it was.
Thanks, Larry.
Pete |
_________________ " .......you have learned patience and stubbornness and concentration on what you really want at the expense of what is there to shoot. You have learned that man can as easily be debased as ennobled by a sport....." |
|
|
|
|
|
|