16ga.com ~ View topic

Frightening story and pics of a blown damascus gun:
http://gunshop.com/ubb/ultimatebb.php?ubb=get_topic;f=1;t=023497;p=1

Why is everyone so surprized when one of these old guns goes to gun heaven? Smokeless propellants have been around sinse the 1880's.The the folks who have been producing these powders, smokeless ammo, and smokelss powder guns have been warning us of the simple truth for the same length of time. Smokelees powder and black powder era guns generally do not mix, regardless of our desires to the contrary.

Quite a few of these old guns aren't even up to black powder loads anymore. Yet when a guy like Sherman Bell publishes his finding, lots of folks forget the historic record and jump on the vintage gun wagon based solely on Mr bell's opinions and other folks' here say. So these "accidents" are probably going to continue, including the occasional severe injury or even fatality.

The truth is that there is no way anyone can be certain of the condition of these guns soley on visual inspection. It takes some very expensive testing equipment and some sophisticated techniques, and knowledge to look below the surface of the barrel steel and assess the strength. That takes time and money most folks will not spend. in fact, the very people who can do the testing usually don't want to for liability reasons.

The old try it and see venue leaves a lot to be desired. Just because a gun withstands a few hot loads does not mean it will stand up to a whole bunch of mild ones. That too is a poor assumption. That gun has a long history with no documentation. So its just pure "by guess and by golly" in most cases.

Folks, being a Vintager is a very specialized pastime. Its a game for experts. I'm certainly not one. But I know it and will not do it. I know my limitations including the time, effot and money to become a safe one. If you are going to shoot one of these old guns, be absolutely certain that your gun is up to the task. Spend the money to have it checked, and then be darned sure of your loads to boot. You are not just risking your own well being.

Member Joined: 08 Nov 2005 Posts: 3438 Location: Illinois

16GG hit 'er on the head---modern guns are also blown due to too much or too fast of powder-A whole different topic however.The vintage guns are a whole different ballgame and DEFINETLY not for the rank amatuer Rolling Eyes

Some of these old guns are works of art. They have served their practical purpose well. Now perhaps, its better to keep them for what they remain to be, truely beautiful examples of a master's craft by a master's hand.

Member Joined: 26 Apr 2005 Posts: 743

What Bell demonstrated in his articles is:

1. Some Damascus guns can withstand very high pressure.
2. The "pressure curve" for smokeless and BP loads is quite similar, which means that pressure is pressure--whether it's generated by one or the other.

That being said, although there are plenty of people that do it, I would not shoot a Damascus gun that had not been submitted for smokeless powder reproof.

Member Joined: 28 Oct 2005 Posts: 665 Location: Louisiana

Interesting--------If one links to the site Drew lists the Baker heads the list and the photo is dramatic------however should you continue to review posts under the same thread there is another list of SEVEN modern guns that suffered the same fate--2 K-80's, three 1100's, one 3200 and a Browning .410 O/U. Now as far as I can tell there is only speculation as to the cause of these barrel failures and I have little interest in any case, but there appears to me to be room for more than. one opinion/conclusion

Joined: 03 Apr 2006 Posts: 3 Location: Tennessee

I blew up a lovely old Hopkins & Allen 16ga double by firing a 2 3/4 inch shell in it's 2 1/2 inch chamber. My gun looked just like the photo, blowing out the side of the chamber just behind the forcing cone. I was fourteen at the time, and had no idea that shells came in different lenghts. I was not hurt but it took me a long time before I could shoot a shotgun again.
Mesmerist

Member Joined: 27 Jun 2005 Posts: 1545 Location: Michigan

Joined: 01 Sep 2006 Posts: 50

If this is the gun that blew up that was posted on the gunshop.com board I know the man that this happened to. Yes it was a damacus barreled gun but he mixed up his reloading components and when he thought he was loading Pyrodex he was instead loading PB smokeless. The result was a chamber pressure of almost 20,000PSI yes you read that correctly 20,000 psi. And the gun held together until the third or forth shot he was shooting skeet and it happened at station 2. Now he has a separate reloader for Pyrodex. Both powders lot very similar. Just goes to show you you need to be careful no matter how long you have been doing something. Eric

No-this is a different one from gunshop.com DoubleGunBBS. BUT the other blown up gun is an very powerful warning to all handloaders to PAY ATTENTION. And welcome to the Forum Parkerguy Very Happy

HEY DAVE M AND BRAD 6260-we have enough fellas now to start that Parker Putz Society?? Wink

Joined: 01 Sep 2006 Posts: 50

Thanks for the welcome... Just wanted everyone to be carefull, this guy has been reloading for a long time and still made a mistake. I guess the old saying double check always makes sense (or measure twice cut once as my dad used to say) Eric