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<  16ga. Ammunition & Reloading  ~  How Do Fiber Wads Effect Pressure?
Ed Blake
PostPosted: Sun Oct 15, 2006 2:54 pm  Reply with quote



Joined: 20 Aug 2006
Posts: 20
Location: MANAKIN, VA

I know that specific loads call for specific components for a certain pressure and/or velocity. i want to load low pressure, but use fiber/card wads instead of plastic. These would be the same wads I use for black powder shells. Can these be used safely with smokeless? Thanks
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hoashooter
PostPosted: Sun Oct 15, 2006 7:02 pm  Reply with quote
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That would depend on what powder you were using stay away from the faster ones Wink
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Ed Blake
PostPosted: Mon Oct 16, 2006 6:09 am  Reply with quote



Joined: 20 Aug 2006
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Location: MANAKIN, VA

I am learning about shotshell reloading, but I would be using PB or SR7625 in new Cheddite 2.5" shells.
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Dave Miles
PostPosted: Mon Oct 16, 2006 6:45 am  Reply with quote
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Ed Blake wrote:
I am learning about shotshell reloading, but I would be using PB or SR7625 in new Cheddite 2.5" shells.


Is there a reason you don't want to use plastic wads. I load these hulls, using the SR-7625 powder, with the SG16 wad, 1 oz. shot and either a 6 point crimp or a roll crimp.
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Ed Blake
PostPosted: Mon Oct 16, 2006 7:03 am  Reply with quote



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Location: MANAKIN, VA

Dave: I have a number of these wads and wanted to use them if it could be done safely. I have no objection to using plastic wads.
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Dave Miles
PostPosted: Mon Oct 16, 2006 7:22 am  Reply with quote
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Ed,
I'm sure fiber wads can be used with smokeless powder, I just don't have any load data on them. Maybe some one has an old manual that might have some info. What kind of pressure are you trying to stay within? I'll do a little research, and get back with you if I find something.
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Ed Blake
PostPosted: Mon Oct 16, 2006 8:03 am  Reply with quote



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Location: MANAKIN, VA

Dave: I have no pressure "target" per se, just what would be prudent for an 1889 Remington with twist barrels and smokeless powder. I shoot 2F black powder in 2 3/4 drams with 1oz. of shot. It is a light recoiling load that will bust clays all day long, but I have thought about dropping the shot charge back to 7/8s.
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Ben Yarian
PostPosted: Mon Oct 16, 2006 8:54 pm  Reply with quote



Joined: 01 Oct 2006
Posts: 171
Location: western PA

ballistic products, the sixteen gauge manuel list a load for 2 1/2 " fiocchi hulls. f-616 primer, 22 grains pb, 1 nc16 card, 1hcw16 card, 7/8 oz shot, roll crimp, 8850 psi. also list fiocchi hull 2 1/2 ", f- 616 primer, 27 grains sr-7625 powder, 1 nc 16 card, 1chw16 card, 1 oz shot , roll crimp at 10600 psi.
Ben
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Dave Miles
PostPosted: Tue Oct 17, 2006 3:16 am  Reply with quote
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Ben, I sure wouldn't consider either one of those loads to be low pressure.
There has to be some better load data out there somewhere. Sad
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16gaugeguy
PostPosted: Tue Oct 17, 2006 5:05 am  Reply with quote
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Ed, fiber, card, and felt wads wil usually generate less pressure than a one piece plastic wad if all the other componants are identical. The plastic wad base with its skirt will obturate and seal the expanding gases behind it better. so it is more efficient.

My best advice is to stick to proven, tested, data until you have enough experience to identify which componants will raise or lower pressures if substituted in a loading recipe and why this is so. This can take years. Read all the shotshell reloading manuals you can get, and compare loading data as much as you can as you go. The data available will help you identify certain trends and characteristica of the various componants in time.

Finally, get the 1-800 numbers and web addresses of the powder and componant manufacturers and ask any questions you have concerning pressures, componants, etc. These folks usually will have a staff on hand to assist you. They will be your best source of information you can't gleen from their publications. Sometimes it take a little persistance to reach them, but they will usually have your answer. Good luck in your new hobby.
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Ed Blake
PostPosted: Tue Oct 17, 2006 5:43 am  Reply with quote



Joined: 20 Aug 2006
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Location: MANAKIN, VA

Thank you all for your replies. You guys are a great resource. For now I'll stick with proven loads using plastic wads. Good shooting to you all.
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RWG
PostPosted: Tue Oct 17, 2006 4:31 pm  Reply with quote
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Agree with 16GG. Fiber wads tend to be less efficient than plastic wads with good gas seals. So all other components being equal, substituting fiber wads for a plastic one piece wad normally lowers pressure and velocities. So you usually have to increase the powder charge to get equal performance. Russ
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Ben Yarian
PostPosted: Wed Oct 18, 2006 9:16 pm  Reply with quote



Joined: 01 Oct 2006
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Dave.. i agree that they are not low pressure loads... just the only loads that i new of that were of the fiber natue. thats why i was sure to list the pressures. Ben
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311A 16ga
PostPosted: Wed Oct 18, 2006 9:24 pm  Reply with quote



Joined: 25 Feb 2006
Posts: 50
Location: john day, or

Back in the'50s I did a lot of reloading , for target and birds I used nitro card and fiber wads in paper hulls (12 ga) driving 1 1/8 oz lead with 23 grains of red dot, wouldn't want to do that now using plastic hulls and and plastic wads.
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16gaugeguy
PostPosted: Thu Oct 19, 2006 5:04 am  Reply with quote
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A few years back, one of our local trap shooters got it in his head that recreating the old paper cased loads of the 1950's was going to help him overcome his flinching problem. he believed these old loads generated less pressure and less back thrust for equal velocity. Yeah, I know. I makes about as much sense to me as it did to just about everyone else, but this guy was a real character to begin with, so he was too much fun to watch. Laughing

He used Federal paper hulls, 1-1/8 ounces of hard shot, felt and nitro card filler wads as recommended in some old 1950's loading data he found, and 23 grains of Red dot for a supposed 1200 FPS load. He shot some and then had a couple of partial case seperations. We opened up a few to check his powder drops. They were about perfect. we then sent a dozen back to Alliant to see what was up. They replyed that the pressures being generated were nearly 18,000 PSI.

His Browning BT99 ate these overloads like peanuts and showed no signes of any problems except the spent primers looked a bit flat and the striker marks were a tad deep. Good gun. Lucky for him.

Some of that old data was a bit opimistic about how safe and mild the pressures were. It also explains why quite a few of the first Remington 1100 skeet guns had cracked action rails and also why quite a few Trap pump models shot loose in a hurry. It was a different time and a different world back then. Reloading was very much more "casual" and by the seat of one's pants. Data back then was not nearly as conservative. Many accepted loads took pressures right up to and sometimes over the firewall.

Today's data is very conservative and usually has a negative fudge factor figured in to make sure the load will stay under the rated pressure. so do the powder bushing charts for all press manufacturers have a negative fudge factor figured in. That is why I always advocate weighing your actual charges until you know the correct average you are actually getting. This step can save you a lot of unexpected bloopers and ineffective loads.

I always advocate conservative loading practices, especially to the new guys. If you stick to data developed well after the advent of plastic one piece wads, and use proper procedures, it is about impossible to get into trouble reloading you own ammo. I'd avoid any data developed prior to 1975. Some of that stuff is a little too casual for my liking.
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