16ga.com ~ View topic

Joined: 16 Nov 2006 Posts: 1

all right... here goes... all my buddies hunt pheasant and convinced me to go a few weekends ago... had a great time! here's the problem... don't have a gun yet... haven't fired a gun in years... but believe i can really get into this... even spend some time with my father... shooting on weekends. here's my dilemma... basically, you could describe me as a first time shooter since it's been so long... am currently checking out used guns... just because of lack of funds. i have got it down to a 16 ga remington 870 express and a 12 ga mossberg... both pump. the mossberg is a bit more... but im rather taken by the 16 ga... any advice for a newbie? thanks!

Both guns are built on a 12ga frame. With that said, and it's just my opinion. I believe that the 870 is a better quality gun. I owned and recently sold (to another member of this board) a very nice 16ga Wingmaster. Shortly there after, I walked into a deal on a youth model 16ga 870 express synthetic. My all purpose (back-up, foul weather, HD, heavy brush, & loner) gun. The 16ga 870's are smooth shooters, with factory 1oz loads. The 12ga frame helps to reduce/absorb the recoil. We're kind of partial to 16's here. As long as your looking at used pump guns, you may want to look at an older 16ga Winchester model 12 (20ga frame) or Ithaca M37 (16ga frame). Shoulder each and go with what fits & feels best to you. Good luck! And, be sure to let us know what model of 16ga you end up with. Wink

Member Joined: 08 Nov 2005 Posts: 3438 Location: Illinois

2nd nossman and don't forget to save those empties down the road a bit you will want to fill 'em back up with your favorite load---save the boxes too!!!

Welcome natek! Since you posted your question on the 16 ga BBS, you obviously want the 16 ga. Laughing

And the responses here will be affirmative on that selection. The 870 16 ga should be a great choice, but the only thing to consider is the availability of shells for the 16. You might have to plan ahead on procuring enough for whatever event that you will be shooting the gun at. Other than that small issue, go for the 16.

Hc

IT'S NOT TOO LATE! TURN AND RUN, AND DON'T LOOK BACK!!! If you don't, you'll end up spending all your time with guns. dogs and items related, and consorting with various other ne'r-do-wells who spend all their time with the same. Hang out here for a while and you'll see what I mean.

If you decide not to take my advice, well then, welcome Very Happy

!

Fin

I realize this is a 16 gauge group. I'm gonna take flak for what I'm about to say. However, in good conscience, I'm going to anyway.

If at this point you are limited in experience and money, I'd go with the pump gun, but I'd go with a 12 gauge. Your chances are much better of getting a good used gun like an 870 express model at a very reasonable price. You will find a much better selection of ammo at a wider range of prices and at a wider selection of shops and stores. the 12 is the universal gauge. Most folks start with one for the obvious reasons I've already stated, plus, a 12 has more ballistic potential and is a more versitle gauge.

If you "catch fire" and become a devoted shotgunner and hunter, you will find the money and the time to support your pastime including better and more specialized guns like the 16 ga. But that is a ways down the road for you from what I'm gathering from your posts. I'd give yourself a little running room first. Good luck and stick around. You will learn a lot from this site. Most everything technical we post can be applied to any gauge in one way or another and can only help you get started.

Guest

If you have not shot a shotgun much, I agree with 16GaugeGuy that you get a 12 gauge as your first shotgun. I would probably go with either a Beretta 390 (an order model that you can get used) or buy possibly a new Beretta 391. IMHO, they are the best auto shotgun that you can get for your money. I recommend an auto just because of the lack of noticed recoil which can affect your shooting ability. BTW, an any time that you decide that you need to sell either one of the guns to “upgrade” to another shotgun, you’ll find that the Berettas hold their value better than most of the other “production” types of shotguns. If you buy this shotgun, I would take up clay target shooting and become very proficient with hitting moving targets. When I took up hunting around 40 years ago (when I was ten years old), there was enough game that you could become a good shot shooting wild birds. This unfortunately is not the case in most of the country and clay targets are the cheapest way to get good. Get a good instructor (don't let your friends try to teach you because most people don't have a clue in shooting), and burn a lot of ammo. Try to get good by shooting with a low gun mount which means that you don’t have the gun premounted like most people that shoot trap or skeet. Any instructor can tell you what I’m talking about. A 12 gauge works best because the ammo is cheap and shoot the light 1-1 1/8 oz. loads. If you're diligent with your new sport, you should become a decent shot within a year or so.

Good luck

Natek, see what I mean. Already some of the more knowledgable guys are weighing in with valid opinions and advise. Most good shooters want to help a new guy out. It's quite normal and actually can be a bit overwhealming too, especially when we start helping you spend your money. We are incredibly good at that. Laughing

Not to one up anyone, but I keyed on your financial situation. I mentioned a used 870 12ga. Express for a particular reason. the express version is the entry level 870. However, its as well built as any 870 version and can usually be had for under $200 if you take a bit of time to shop around. It comes with a 28" barrel and one modified choke tube. This is not a handicap, because all other 12 ga. Remchoke tubes will fit the barrel. They are anything but hard to find and can be had very cheap used at $10 each.

Further, a 12 ga pump with a 3" chamber like the Express will accommodate any 12 ga load up to and including any 3" mag load. However, because it is a pump gun and manually operated, it will handle very light loads too like 1000 fps, 7/8 ounce creampuffs for skeet and quail. These light loads are very comfortable to shoot and are available in 12 ga as light recoiling training loads from a number of sources.

Also, the 870 pump is about the least compicated, most straight forward design available. It is rugged as rocks, and reliable as the sun rising, and so easy to clean and service, its almost boring. Its perfect for the guy on a tight budget.

Gas autoloaders are very comfortable to shoot, easy to operate, and can be an advantage at times. However, they are at least 200% more expenive to buy, even a good used one. They also will operate best with a minimum load. Many gas and even recoiol operated autos will not reliably function with very soft shooting loads. You can also get stuck with a worn out one too. I've yet to see a worn out 870 express. Most folks buy them, learn on them, then trade up. They are a dime a dozen. When its time to trade them, you will lose a much smaller amount on the trade than a pump gun too if you buy a clean used one.

You need to shoot--a lot. I'd put all the money you can into ammo and target fees, and skimp on the gun at first. Your next stepshould be learning to reload your own ammo. This is a great saver if you buy the cheaper entry level single stage presses and buy componants in bulk with other shooting club members, but that won't be for a while.

Which brings up another point. you should join an active and friendly shooting club nearby that fits your budget. Look for one with a skeet field or one that has both a trap and skeet field. You don't need to join the ones offering the whole magilla yet. You can usually shoot at these more expensive and lavish clubs as a paying guest. Most of them will not turn down your money. However, you will learn the basics of shotgunning best on a smaller club's skeet field to begin with.

Just look around and when you find one, shoot there as a guest a few times. Watch which of the older shooters are very good shots but use an average gun to do it. Look who seems to be the friendlest and easiest going, and ask him for a few pointers. You'll be well on your way in no time. Trust me. This approach never fails. Also, you will be making friends with one of the club's patriarchs which can never hurt.

Also learn to play cribbage. For some reason, most of the older shooters in many of the clubs I have belonged to love the game. The old timers love beating the younger guys at this card game. Its a great way to spend a rainy morning while you wait for the skies to clear, or if its too cold to shoot. you will also learn a bunch from the conversation around you about guns, ammo, who is selling a bargain priced shotgun, etc. These older guys have seen it all. You can't go wrong in their company.

Like I said, good luck. I actually envy you. You are setting out on a process that will enrich your life like no other has done for me. I've walked the trail you will follow. I'd do it again in a heartbeat. It's been a wonderful adventure. Most importantly, smile and have fun. That it what its all about.

Natek,

First off, welcome to the site.

Please spend time reading on the site. You will discover that it is a wealth of information on many subjects, not just 16 gauge shotguns. Also welcome to the world of shotgun shooters and hunters.

Many of us have developed our love of the 16 gauge after years of experience with other gauges, or are, like me, ones who re-discovered the joy of the 16 gauge as an upland gun.

Having said that, many of us also use and enjoy other guns and are experienced in teaching new shooters.

The advice that you first shotgun should probably be a 12 gauge is right on. THe availability and flexibility of ammunition is the decided advantage. Although in reading this site, you may get the feeling that there is a lot of 16 gauge ammo out there (and there is) it pails in comparision to the variety of loads available in the 12 gauge. Also, the members of this board can sniff out 16 gauge ammo better than most bird dogs can find quail!

I realize that in you initial post you stated that funds were limiting your choice for a shotgun, but I would offer my two cents on this. First off, the 870 and the Mossberg are both fine guns and will give you years of service.
I am a retired law enforcement officer and spent 25 years of my law enforcement career as a firearms instructor. I trained lots of new shooters on Remington 870's and Mossbergs.

Having said that, I don't recommend them for a beginning shooter/hunter for the following reasons.

1. Felt recoil. BOth of these guns are relatively lightweight and have sharp combed stocks. IF you are going to shoot a lot (which is a requirement to become a good shot) you will feel the recoil of even light loads.

2. In my experience of teaching new shooters with both pumps and semi-autos, not having to worry about manually operating the gun gives the new shooter one less thing to think about and lets them concentrate on hitting the bird which is what it is all about.

3. I always hear about the absolute reliability of pumps. Wihtout going into a lengthy discussion and experiences, just let me sum it up: "It AIN'T SO!"

I would add that the recommendation of a good semi-auto in 12 gauge is a good choice. The Beretta 390/391, Browning Gold/ Remington 1100/11-87
or Winchester SX-2/SX-3 would all begood choices. Some searching will reveal a range of prices.Stay away from the 'bargain guns' with four number model numbers available at some Megamarts. They leave a lot to be desired and you won't save money.

Again welcome and never be afraid to ask questions. THat's how we all learn.

TMB
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