16ga.com ~ View topic - 16 gauge Ithaca Flues

Gentlemen, I'm new to this forum and the 16 gauge but not to side by sides. I currently have a Grulla 20 ga. that I put factory loads through and a L.C. Smith 12 gauge that I reload for. I recently purchased an Ithaca 16 gauge Flues Model and I have a question relating to chamber pressure. The gun is in good condition, tight on lock up and the barrels ring clear. Is there a factory load with low enough chamber pressure as to be safe in this gun? It will be used strickly for upland birds and with my luck lately, that means few rounds will go through it.

Thanks for any help on this matter,

Dick Willey
Knoxville, TN.

Guest

Dick Ithaca stopped production of the Flues Model in 1926 so it will have short 2 9/16ths inch chambers and the small frames (16 gauge in particular) have been know to crack.

I would recommed that you limit your loads to 1 ounce or less at or less than 1150 fps to keep the recoil down and limit the pressure to 9000 psi.

I think Poly wad and RST both make loads that meet this criterial. They also make up 2 1/2 inch 16 gauge shells. Winchester, Federal and Remington are all significantly above that.

Member Joined: 08 Nov 2005 Posts: 3438 Location: Illinois

2nd twicebarrel-----if you would like to load your own---the 16 ga Society would be a good investment---The knowledge and loads avaliable would make this a wise investment

Welcome Dick Very Happy

Have you established that the Flues has 2 3/4" or 2 9/16 chambers? You might review the 'Chamber Length' Announcement on the Guns Forum in that regard.

Certainly any of the 2 1/2" low pressure loads would be fine:
Polywad 'Vintager' http://www.polywad-shotgun-shells.com 800-998-0669
Eley subsonic/low recoil http://eleyshotshells.com 512-821-9953
ARMUSA 'Vintage' http://www.armusa-performance.com 281-381-7773
Kent http://www.firearmservice.com 512-821-9953
RST http://www.rstshells.com 570-553-1651

I assume you are asking about standard 2 3/4" loads and the lightest is probably the Federal Game Shok 1 oz. at 1165 fps and about 8000 PSI. The Remington Game Load runs 1200 fps so is a bit hotter. There is some difference of opinion about whether shooting 2 3/4" shells in a 2 9/16" chamber will raise pressure significantly, but in light of the documented concern about frame cracking in Flues guns, I personally would use the Federal load only if the chamber had been lengthened by a competent double gun specialist like Mike Orlen. The worry is over the removal of too much metal just ahead of the chambers.
You make the call but if it was my gun with original chambers I'd leave the brls alone and shoot the Polywads or RSTs.

Member Joined: 25 Jul 2006 Posts: 781

Jeff,

The flues is famous for cracked frames. Before shooting (before buying) look VERY closely at the edge where the standing breech intersects the water table. The first thing your looking for is any hairline cracks. It needs to be very clean and you still might mot be able to see a small crack.

Second, is this edge a hard right angle or is it a radiused edge? If it is a right angled edge then you need to be serious about sticking to the very light loads. If it is radiused you have a little more headroom as the later Flues were radiused at this point to spread out the stress on this known failure point.

Either way, NEVER shoot a 16 ga 1 1/8 oz load out of the gun, and the lightest loads you can find will probably be powerful enough for any thing you'll want to shoot this gun at anyway.

Jeff

A very sincere thanks to all for the valuable information. I'll check the chamber length, it never entered my mind, assumed, and I should know better, that it was 2 3/4. If it is, I'll will more than likely go with the Federal.

Again, thanks to all and have a good Thanksgiving.

Dick Willey
Knoxville, TN.

Joined: 19 Jun 2004 Posts: 1480 Location: Mpls, MN.

Dick,
The Eley V.I.P. game loads for 16 in 2 1/2 inch are excellent for everything upland. I've used them for years in my Tobins, a gun design with similar problems (I think the frame bends in Tobin guns, and ends up off-face after using SAAMI spec ammunition, seen plenty of Tobins in this condition) and ammunition requirements as a Fluesy. I would STAY AWAY from Federal and Remington ammunition in an old gun, as the components and powder can change from lot to lot, since US companies don't worry too much about pressure level on the ammunition they produce, just keeping it under SAMMI specs, which, is high enough to kill a Fluesy quickly. The English ammunition has to conform to CIP specs for ammunition, which is more tightly controlled lot to lot, and lower in max pressure allowed. The Eley folks also have black powder loads available if you are so inclined, really low pressure, but, they are dirty. I have used the Eley loads in my modern-as-tomorrow 16 ga Ithaca Ultralight pump (aluminum receiver, choke tubes) and can report they are super in new guns as well, some of the cheaper Winchester and Federal promo loads have a steel base that can cause problems on extraction. No such nonsense with the good quality Eley loads. I will say I don't know how well they work in 16 ga autoloaders, but, I don't care about that, either. Good Luck.
Best,
Ted

Took some searching, but found a pic of a cracked frame Flues. Note the crack is at the juncture of the water table and the standing breach.