To answer the original question: No, Browning BSS's were never made in 16ga, only 12 and 20. The 20ga field models tended to be heavy (for that gauge) coming in at 7lbs +/-. My 12ga with 28" brls weighs 7lbs 8oz. Very nice guns.
Joined: 12 Mar 2005
fred lauer wrote:
Specifically where did you get the information that SKB made barrels for Connecticut Shotgun???
Not SKB barrels Fred. CSMC buys (or used to buy) unfinished (rough) SKB receiver and barrel blocks plus forend irons. They machine the rough parts to their own specs and configurations. Most likely they also buy barrel stock and assorted parts like rib stock etc, turn the barrels, then match and fit them into the barrel blocks to be assembled and finished. At least this is how they used to manufacture their SxS guns. I believe they still do.
CSMC may now be sourcing the rough receiver and barrel blocks manufactured elsewhere than SKB out of Japan. The Turkish gun industry has stepped into the parts business, and has taken some of the customers away from the Japanese. Even so, the different companies within the Japanese gun industry have continued to cooperate with each other and have continued to provide a wide assortment of parts at affordable prices for each other and for other gun manufacturers all over the world as well as producing finished guns for a number of brands like Browning.
CSMC may have invested in the machinery and tooling to make their own receivers, barrels, and all other parts in house now, but that would be a tremendously expensive investment for a small manufacturer like them. They fill a niche and seem to do it well, but they are still a small company in the scheme of things.
This is exactly how many small gun manufactures operate today (all claims of everything being made in house to the contrary). None of these companies are required to divulge how they operate to the public. None are above having Madison Ave types spin the advertisements to suit their clients' needs. It's the bottom line that dictates the process, not the advertising.
That's just business and always has been. Besides, what difference does it really make if the products are well made from good stock. It has always been the end products vs the profits that counts in any business and always will be.
Joined: 12 Mar 2005
An addendum to my previous post regarding the RBL shotguns:
Did Connecticut Shotgun Manufacturing Company buy a gun line to produce the Model 21 Over & Under?
YES, in 1996, we purchased the Model 21 division from U.S. Repeating Arms Company, and we received all the tools, fixtures, and processes to build the gun.
Yup. CSMC bought the original Kodensha Model 500/ Winchester 101 /Golden Eagle O/U shotgun (same gun) machinery and tooling which was brought over from Japan by Olin. Olin was a main investor in Kodensha going back to the late 1960s. Olin wanted a line of Japanese O/U imports to compete with Miroku and SKB. Kodensha also produced the Winchester Model 23 SxS guns for Olin, with the assistance and cooperation of a couple of other Japanese gun/gun parts manufacturers including Miroku.
The price CSMC got the whole Model 101 shebang for was very low considering the condition of the goods and the fact that Olin wrote it all off as a loss. The same deal today would most likely be prohibitively expensive all things considered.
Kodensha closed their doors in the late 1980's or early 1990's. The property was bought, the buildings razed, and a three tier golf driving range was built and still occupies the spot. Golf's real big in Japan.
Joined: 02 Feb 2006
Location: western pa
As a retired steel mill machinist I am well aware of the global market for various grades of steel. We often machined parts from imported stock. I sort of got lost in the story about the Model 21 Winchester because the Model 21 was only built in New Haven not Japan. The machinery for the 101 and 23 undoubtedly had to come from Japan because the guns were marked as such but that does not include the Model 21 Winchester. The Model 21 over under is a whole different breed of cat and is more in line with Italian o/u designs. The reason I asked for specific information is because it appears that there seems to be a couple of stories being somehow incorrectly mixed. Not trying to be a wise guy but looking for some specific information that I may not have been aware of.
_________________ Always get get a drink upstream of the herd-Will Rogers
Joined: 12 Mar 2005
Sorry to confuse you Fred. CSMC named their 101 based O/U the Model 21. Don't ask me why. Probably a marketing strategy based on association, not fact. It's slick marketing spin to sell the gun to folks who don't know the diff. But we do.
Addendum 10/21/17 from the SKB Story on their wbsite:
In 2008, the economic turmoil started by the loan failures in the U.S. housing industry, began to take on global consequences and spilled over into other industries slowing demand and production. The SKB factory found itself in a situation where importers were cancelling orders, and its aging workforce had little interest in continuing operations. Since it did not appear that there was going to be quick recovery in the global economy, the decision to close the factory was made in late 2009.
In 2010, during the closure process of the factory, G.U. Inc. purchased the remaining inventory of parts, the shotgun schematic and production drawings and the SKB brand name from the Japanese. The intent was to find a European manufacturer to replicate the Japanese designs. After several years of searching, and multiple meetings with several manufacturers, it was determined that the initial investment for tooling no longer made this a viable option.
So SKB shotguns are not made in Japan anymore. They are now being made in Turkey. This begs the question. Where has the machinery and tooling for the Japanese made SKB double guns gone? Something tells me CSMC is a good candidate for where it ended up. If so, then Griffon could very well be correct. I'd not be surprised given the history of CSMC and their penchant for obtaining unused Japanese made machinery and tooling for shotgun manufacturing.
It also bodes well for the future value of my 20 gauge Ithaca SKB Model 100.
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