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<  16ga. Ammunition & Reloading  ~  Winchester Ranger shells
Robert E. Lee
PostPosted: Mon Mar 05, 2018 1:59 pm  Reply with quote



Joined: 22 Jul 2016
Posts: 17
Location: ohio

12 ga. question here. Several years ago an elderly gentleman gave me many boxes of empty shot shells, both 12 & 20 ga. I used the 20's for my son when he was starting out, the 12's found their way into the corner of the garage, probably 2k quantity. What data would I use the AA, the polyform, or ?. They are shorter internally than AA. Or would I be better off sending them to the land-fill. Thank you, Bob Lee
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df
PostPosted: Mon Mar 05, 2018 3:06 pm  Reply with quote



Joined: 01 Oct 2007
Posts: 962
Location: Minnesota

My understanding is the reload data for the old compression formed AA hulls is the same as the current manufactured AA hulls.
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mike campbell
PostPosted: Mon Mar 05, 2018 4:04 pm  Reply with quote
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WyoChukar
PostPosted: Mon Mar 05, 2018 4:23 pm  Reply with quote



Joined: 16 Jul 2015
Posts: 2124
Location: Hudson,Wy

What sort of construction are they? Can you tell if they are compression formed, two piece with paper base wad, or two piece with a plastic base wad?

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MaximumSmoke
PostPosted: Mon Mar 05, 2018 4:32 pm  Reply with quote
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Are they plastic or paper? Either way, judging by your statement "they are shorter internally than AA", they are the oldest style Winchester/Western polyethylene hull. They were the same as their paper predecessors, except for having their tube section made of plastic rather than paper. Does the headstamp say Winchester Ranger? It should. The internal construction and capacity of these hulls is the same as the old paper ones. Rangers are the Winchester brand, while X-Perts were the Western brand, from back when Winchester and Western were two brands, both before and after Olin Corp. bought Winchester Repeating Arms Corp. after it had bought Western Cartridge Company. In the days when the shells you describe were made, Rangers and X-Perts were identical low-brass loads, with the only difference being the brand. The high-brass loads were Winchester SuperSpeed and Western SuperX -- they had the same construction, but greater internal capacity for their heavier loads.

The hull I believe you have described, whether plastic or paper, has a multi-piece internal paper basewad. They are old and maybe have been subject to some humidity and hot/cold cycling. Only you might know their exact condition. They are not the best hulls for reloading. With age and multiple reloadings, and hot/cold/damp/dry cycling, the bonds that hold the basewad assembly together can weaken, causing portions of the basewad, particularly the lower "seal cup" to go out part way down the barrel with the shot, hiding there until they can perhaps cause a bulge while obstructing the next shot down the barrel. Not good!

I have loaded plenty of these in their day, and a few oldies about 10 years ago. If they are in good shape, they reload OK. The plastic ones tend to make fairly ugly replicas of their fairly ugly "somewhat inverted style" original crimps which had a melted-swirl center seal that takes a bite out of each of the six crimp points. The plastic is pretty flimsy, a bit like some modern day Cheddites and the like, only not as nice. You can get several reloads out of them if you really want, but it gets pretty ugly fairly soon. Some folks will not reload them because of the basewad disintegration hazard. I certainly advise throwing them away, unless they are really in great shape, and then only shooting them in a break-action gun on which you can check the barrels for debris after every shot before chambering another shell. Even then I wouldn't load them more than a couple of times, no matter how well they look.

By the way, the red, short 12 gauge AA wad (WAA12R) was made for re-loading these hulls, paper or plastic. It's short so you can get a target load into these low-capacity low-brass hulls, or a 1 1/4 to 1 3/8 oz load in the more capacious high-brass version. The old red AA wad has a larger diameter over-powder seal end to work with these straight-walled hulls, paper or plastic. The other AA wads have rather small diameter over-powder cups to work with the tapered-wall compression formed hulls. Original factory loads in the hulls you have were with conventional paper, fiber and felt wads and no shot sleeves (unless they were labeled Mark V -- that was the "premium top shelf load" the same inside except for better shot and a little polyethylene shot protection sleeve). I don't think the Ranger's and corresponding X-Pert's were ever a Mark V (but SuperSpeeds and Super-X's were) as it was always a cheaper load. Later, the Ranger name went away and the distinction between Winchester and Western brands was more-or-less obliterated, and X-Perts were loaded with plastic wads, etc.

Cheers!
Tony
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Robert E. Lee
PostPosted: Mon Mar 05, 2018 9:14 pm  Reply with quote



Joined: 22 Jul 2016
Posts: 17
Location: ohio

ok more info on the rangers. They were originally buckshot loads, if that matters. i found my old Lyman manual (4th edition ), after cutting one in half it compares very closely to the polyformed plastic with plastic basewad. Only difference is the color of the basewad, red instead of white. The manual gives a load of 19.5 gr. of clays with waa12 wad, 7800 lup. I can't believe the original loading changed the construction of the hull, but I don't know. My experience is with AA, or Fed. papers in 12 ga. Also the new clays doesn't meter the same as the old clays (denser )' but is it the same gr. to gr. Thank you, Bob Lee.
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MaximumSmoke
PostPosted: Tue Mar 06, 2018 7:18 am  Reply with quote
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A much newer generation hull than that of which I spoke, RobtELee.
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Dave In AZ
PostPosted: Tue Mar 06, 2018 3:54 pm  Reply with quote



Joined: 13 Oct 2015
Posts: 348

MaximumSmoke wrote:
A much newer generation hull than that of which I spoke, RobtELee.

I still found your post interesting history, thx!
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Robert E. Lee
PostPosted: Tue Mar 06, 2018 8:49 pm  Reply with quote



Joined: 22 Jul 2016
Posts: 17
Location: ohio

Thank you for your replies. I have always been impressed at the knowledge possessed by the people on this board. I don't come here very often anymore mostly just shooting trap now. I hunt with 16ga., but my Setter was retired about 7 yrs. ago and put down 5 yrs. ago. His gr.,grand niece is 2yrs. old and unfortunately not filling his shoes. Anyhow thanks again for the info. I think I'll load a couple shells and try them Fri. evening. Bob Lee
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gomerdog
PostPosted: Tue Mar 06, 2018 9:09 pm  Reply with quote



Joined: 26 Sep 2015
Posts: 94
Location: Fremont County, Wyoming

I've picked up several hundred recently manufactured 12 gauge Ranger buckshot and slug hulls that our local law enforcement dumped into the dumpster at our pistol range. They appear to be straight wall hulls, have about the same volume as Rios. I have loaded them as such with 1 oz. loads in the 8,000 psi range. They don't seem to be as well made as some of the Euro hulls (and not nearly as well made as the Federal buckshot hulls) and have split near the mouth on the second reloading...but they are free.
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Jagdhund
PostPosted: Sun Mar 11, 2018 2:14 pm  Reply with quote
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The first "poly-formed" with plastic base wad were apparently imported from Australia. The current version is sometimes said to be Cheddites. I can't find much difference between older and new, so I use them with Cheddite data.

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