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Member Joined: 13 Feb 2006 Posts: 110 Location: California

My 1930 Utica measures 2 9/16. I am thinking (and I will try not to let that lead to too much trouble Laughing

) that Savage used New Old Stock - leftover Philly parts, like barrels, for some period of time after the move. Ithaca, in several of its iterations, including the most current, did that.

It appears some of the early Utica guns are 2 9/16, some are 2 3/4, and some have been altered after the fact.

Member Joined: 20 Mar 2005 Posts: 1522 Location: NH

The guy that was measuring the chambers was questioning himself a bit. I watched him and the chamber checker definately did not go to the 2.75" line.
It was almost like it came between the 2.5 and 29/16. I'm going to have to have it checked again to be sure. But it wasn't 2.75".

Now, if it is 2 9/16", what say you all for shooting Rem Game loads in it? I have not done it because I was under the impression it was 2.5" and I had access to RST 2.5" shells.

If it is 2 9/16", would it be safe to shoot the Remmys in it?

Member Joined: 27 Jun 2005 Posts: 1545 Location: Michigan

I seriously doubt your Sterly has 2-1/2" chambers. They could be 2-9/16" and you should have no trouble shooting the Black Rem. Game loads. I've shoot alot of them in my 2-9/16" chamber Parkers. I've even shoot 2-3/4" low pressure loads in my Damascus guns with 2-9/16" chambers.

Member Joined: 20 Mar 2005 Posts: 1522 Location: NH

My barrels are marked:

Rt barrel: Sterlingworth Fluid Compressed Steel
Lt barrel: Savage Arms Corp, Utica, NY USA

Serial # is: 3698XX for anyone that can give me a year for manufacture.

Guest

TJC your gun was made late in 1933.

I didn't used worry about using Reminton or Winchester Promo loads in my short chamber Foxes until I split the stock on my 1935 gun recently. The Sterlingworth could handle the chamber pressure but the wood couldn't handle the recoil of several thousand loads.

As far a Fox chamber measurements go I think it is wise to assume that any gun made before 1937/38 that does not have 2 3/4 inch chambers marked on the barrel does infact have 2 9/16th inch chambers unless they have been altered after production.

Member Joined: 20 Mar 2005 Posts: 1522 Location: NH

Thanks for the info TB. I guess we don't really know what the chamber length is though by the year, huh?
I'll stick to using the 2.5" RST loads. If for any reason, the one you gave. I've heard and read here about the wood on the old guns going under the pressures of modern shells.
I only take it out once in a while for a walk in the sun anyway. Kinda like what I did Sunday. Took the Win 101 Pidgeon grade 20ga for a walk and shot a couple of roosters. Then I wiped it down and put it back in the safe for probably another 3 yrs. Very Happy

Especially since the new Merkel 1620 will go into service in about another week or 2. Wink

I'll take the Sterly to another smith and see what he says about the length of the chambers. I'm betting 2 9/16ths.

http://foxcollectors.s10.forumsplace.com/viewtopic.php?t=312

Here's a reply to my query on foxcollectors.com. Dave Noreen (researcher) is one of the really knowledgeable Fox guys, but from this, I'm not sure we know any more than we did before. I think most agree, though, that TJ's chambers are not 2-1/2", though they may well be 2-9/16"!

Looks like I can put to rest my understanding that all Utica Foxes are 2-3/4"; another belief dashed Sad

!

Fin

Member Joined: 20 Mar 2005 Posts: 1522 Location: NH

Well that does kinda answer some of the questions.

1. The early 16's were listed as 2 9/16"

2. The short chambers run around 2 7/16" That is less than 2.5" and could be the reason the chamber guage was reading close to 2.5" and not quite 2 9/16"

3. Mine being made in 1933, thanks Twice Barrel, it could be like the responders gun from the Fox Collectors site and be 2 9/16" and just is a short version making it close to 2.5".

Makes sense to me.

So I guess I stick with shooting the 2.5" shells as there are no 2 9/16" and we know the 2.75" modern pressure loads can cause damage to at least the wood.

Does that all sound correct?

Joined: 27 Apr 2005 Posts: 380 Location: Northeast Ohio

Hey jig,

Where are the photos from and just what species of buzz bombs are you referring to? When I was many years younger I had one of the most memorable trips of my life chasing chukars and Huns in Idaho's Snake River Canyon. Your pics do not look like the Snake to me but wherever it is, it sure is steep!!

I'm still in good enough shape to give it a try but I'd just have to go slower and rest a bit more often! I was lugging a 6lb. 11oz 12 ga. Belgian Browning Superlight at the time. I still have it but would add my 16 ga. model 12 to the mix now. I wiil get back there some day. It was a wingshooters dream. Chukars and Huns up high, and quail and ringnecks down below. Plus, the people were great. I operated out of Boise for the trip. This was way back in 83' and if it hasn't been ruined and my wife can be convinced, I might even retire there in a few years and do lots of hunting. I'm not into big game. I'll definitely visit if I don't end up living there.

Member Joined: 01 Dec 2006 Posts: 524

Sorry for taking so long to reply. Our power has been out since last Thursday Eve. Just came on a bout an hour ago so Ive been busy keeping the fire stoked etc. Those pix are in the Columbia River canyon not too far from Palisades. which is about 20 mins east of Wenatchee. The buxx bombs are both Chukar and quail. The chuker are very, very tough up there and hang out just where the shale ends. When disturbed they fly straight up hill anto the base of the cliffs. Seems they actually go into some cave up there that are not accessible by foot. Put a little snow on that shale and its really treacherous. The worse though is right after the snow melts and the ground thaws. Then there are spontaneous rock slides impossible to predict. Chukar love it though. The quail hang out just below the chuker and seldom fly up into the rocks very far. The chukar are smart there and start running toward the cliffs as soon as they hear your car door shut. You need to get on them very fast so they will flush immediately with no running start. These birds have been hunted for years and have their escape down to an art form.

We were surprised when measuring Dr 16g's very early Utica Sterly to find the chambers indeed 2 1/2" rather than 2 9/16". On the 'chamber length' announcement on the Guns forum there is some discussion that chambers were purposefully cut just a bit shorter than the intended shells in early 1900's guns by lots of makers. The Savage era Sterlys were marked '2 3/4"' and Dr 16g's gun was not so marked so must have been a transition gun-likely brl left over from Philly stock.