16ga.com ~ View topic

Member Joined: 01 Dec 2006 Posts: 524

I am looking at maybe buying one in very good shape with 26" bores for $6,000.00 I have always wanted one of these and want some opinions as to whether they are really worth what the market is demanding for these. Or, would I be better off getting something else for that kind of $$$?

I'm not a collector but I love American doubles such as Fox, Parker, LC Smith and win. I want something I can shoot and collect as default.

I could get some real nice guns for this kind of money such as maybe 3 parker Trojans etc. Ideas people? and I won't be opening an account on fed ex .com and saving 15% on online shipping, or car insurance by switching to Geico.

Joined: 20 Dec 2006 Posts: 3

You just opened the floodgates for all the people that dislike (or worse) the M21. I feel they are terrific shotguns. Yes, maybe a little on the heavy side but is 6 1/2 to 7 pounds REALLY a great burden?? And because of their stoutness one does not have to worry at all about what loads one stuffs in it. I love the ones I have. Alas, none are 16's, all 12's.

Member Joined: 08 Nov 2005 Posts: 3438 Location: Illinois

I can't beleive this topic hasn't been flooded with comments Rolling Eyes

There was a long thread on SS BB not long ago debating the M-21 and, as usual, it turned into another skunk squirtin' match. Unfortunately, it's been time deleted so unavailable. Our own Bro. Larry participated...uh... enthusiastically if not eloquently.
You might check out this thread
http://doublegunshop.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=15888&page=2#Post15888
Birdawg must be off chasing birds but you could PM him.
BTW: btdtst's M-21 was very nice!

Never owned one, never shot one, but I like 'em. Cool guns IMHO, and a real American classic.

Fin

Joined: 20 Dec 2006 Posts: 78 Location: Santiago

JIG, unfortunatedly there are few WinM21 in 16Ga., I recall less that 13% of all produced. Living in the far side of the Americas I was lucky enough to buy one six months ago for a fraction of the money you are willing to pay. Though endowed with 28" barrels, she is a pleasure to shoot with. Pigeons and hares cannot stand 1 once loads of #5 at 40 meters.

Most probably a US diplomat brougt her to this place in the fifties. I had just to do a little oil rubbing work on its wood and came out glowing like a princess. EJSXS

Guest

There seem to be plenty available in 16 gauge between CSMC and Cabelas. I also see them pop up on Guns America.

Member Joined: 15 Mar 2005 Posts: 358 Location: Houston

ejsxs--

Welcome to the board. I'd encourage you to start a separate thread so you can tell us about shooting in your part of the world. I'm sure everybody would love to hear about your experiences: What guns and ammo are readily available, what you shoot at (both target and live), and where you shoot.

Member Joined: 31 Oct 2005 Posts: 446 Location: Wisconsin

I collect Win 21's and have a 1938 26" 'Skeet' in 16 gauge. Very fast handling and the SK1 and SK2 chokes are 4 and 10 thousands with a weight of 6# 12.4oz for a pistol grip gun. Beautiful wood with great beavertail kidney shaped checkering pattern. Great close in rabbit gun as my first shot ever with the gun took a bunny going away at about 20ft.
You need to purchase Ned Schwing's book about the Win 21 and then start to look at all you can. Many of the older guns have been refinshed as indeed the metal on the one I acquired was done. A refinished gun to original specs done by somone like CSMC will probably only be a couple of K less than a completely Mint original finish gun. Skeet guns seem to be the most prevalent in 16 gauge and i'm still looking for a straight grip, splinter forearm field grade.
They are not ultra light doubles but they are built like a bank vault and suffer none of the problems that case hardened guns of that era do because the steel is high carbon and does not need case hardening because it is hard all the way through.
Good luck because thier are a LOT of other individuals out there looking for the same gun!-Dick

Member Joined: 01 Dec 2006 Posts: 524

it;s definitely not a skeet as it is choked M/F and has the splinter forend

Member Joined: 31 Oct 2005 Posts: 446 Location: Wisconsin

Have a competant person (Note: Few gunsmiths are competant in this regard) measure the choke constrictions to assure yourself they are original. Individuals routinely butcher these older M/F guns because modern ammunition causes them to shoot very TIGHT patterns. It's not always bad that someone may have opened the chokes but you don't want to pay for an original gun when the price can be lowered if the gun has been modified.
Note. Win had its own choke specifications so the chokes will be more open that US standards.-Dick

Joined: 20 Dec 2006 Posts: 78 Location: Santiago

JIG,

As I can see you already have one Win 16Ga offered, if you buy it, welcome to the guild. Nonetheless the 26 inch barrel-M/F mix looks even more uncommon to me.

662

Thanks for your encouragement. Shotguns in 16Ga were very popular here before WWII, nowadays are almost impossible to find amongst middle-high income shooters, very much like in other countries. 16Ga shot shells are locally produced and also imported. TEC the main company here, in association with Fiocchi, offers three charges in 16Ga, 28 grams (1 oz), 26 grams (15/16 oz) and 24 grams (7/8 oz). The Remington representative comes second in the market and normaky offers the "Sure Shot" brand.

As to small game, there is a balance of native species (dove, wild pigeon, a local partridge, ducks and geese) and exotic ones (feral pigeon, rabit, European hare, Californian quail). Recently mallard, pheasant and Guinea fowl had been introduced, time will tell if they thrive. Unfortunatedly there is no wild turkey, nor grouse. Intensive Mediterranean agriculture and population growth had cornered game in the Central Valley of Chile. Dove used to be very common, today a growing number of shooters is going for it to Argentina in winter time. There are around 100K shotguns registered in the country (all individual arms should be so), all of them are imported, we have no local shotgun production. EJSXS

Member Joined: 01 Dec 2006 Posts: 524

I decided that I just can't justify the going price for these guns. Changing focus to look for nice Parker 16GA trojan or VH. Evry bit as good if not better gun, for wayyyy less money and will still meet my quality and aesthetic (and posssibly even investment) needs.