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Emtymag
PostPosted: Fri Aug 31, 2018 1:56 pm  Reply with quote



Joined: 05 Oct 2017
Posts: 19
Location: Central MN

The plan, kill ducks more effectively with my Ithaca M37 vent rib with mod choke.

What Iíve got or is on order:
Federal paper base hulls
Rem SP16 wads
Fed 209a
Longshot

I need input on Bismuth shot size, leaning towards 1oz #4.
Also open to 7/8oz steel #4 in a VP80 with Alliant steel powder but would prefer Bismuth

Iím younger(33) and never had the privlage of shooting lead on waterfowl. The Kent Bismuth loads in #5 or #6 and Federal steel #4 left me wanting more later into duck season.

Also Iíve been reloading a few thousand rounds per year of rifle and pistol since I was 12.

Any advise or input welcome, thank you.

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oldhunter
PostPosted: Fri Aug 31, 2018 4:26 pm  Reply with quote
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Location: Somewhere in the Socialist State of Minnesota

Fed 16 Plastic 1 oz. Longshot 25.0 Fed 209A SP-16 1300 8,000 Hodgdon 2000
Fed 16 Plastic 1 oz. Longshot 26.0 Fed 209A SP-16 1350 8,900 Hodgdon 2000
Fed 16 Plastic 1 oz. Longshot 27.0 Fed 209A SP-16 1400 9,800 Hodgdon 2000

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Emtymag
PostPosted: Fri Aug 31, 2018 4:44 pm  Reply with quote



Joined: 05 Oct 2017
Posts: 19
Location: Central MN

oldhunter wrote:
Fed 16 Plastic 1 oz. Longshot 25.0 Fed 209A SP-16 1300 8,000 Hodgdon 2000
Fed 16 Plastic 1 oz. Longshot 26.0 Fed 209A SP-16 1350 8,900 Hodgdon 2000
Fed 16 Plastic 1 oz. Longshot 27.0 Fed 209A SP-16 1400 9,800 Hodgdon 2000


Thank you.

I should have stated Iím using that load from Hodgdonís site.

I guess itís more of a what size Bismuth shot should I load type of question.

#4 or #5? Other?

Iíd like to anchor ducks better at that 30-40 yard range.

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Dogchaser37
PostPosted: Fri Aug 31, 2018 5:05 pm  Reply with quote
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Bismuth #5's are just fine, for that purpose.

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byrdog
PostPosted: Fri Aug 31, 2018 7:22 pm  Reply with quote
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Location: the Moosehorn

Bismuth is lighter than lead I would use 1.125 oz of Biz 3, as the old go to lead load was 1.125 oz of 4. killed out to 40 yds consistently. also the sp16 and longshot in feds is a problem that wad is to small a dimeter for the straight wall fed. I use the Chedite 1632 wad from grafs that is a nice snug fit in that hull so that the powder wont creep out from behind the wad.

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16gaDavis
PostPosted: Sat Sep 01, 2018 6:22 am  Reply with quote



Joined: 24 Jun 2013
Posts: 1335
Location: canandaigua - western n.y. (formerly deerhunter)

a lot of the old load data , used the SP . Having had a bad bought or 2 with them , I concur with BD on the wad change . I'd probably go with the heavier load in my M12's etc , but would be a lot lighter in the Davis , wouldn't really feel restricted .

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Emtymag
PostPosted: Sat Sep 01, 2018 11:47 am  Reply with quote



Joined: 05 Oct 2017
Posts: 19
Location: Central MN

Safe to say Iíll have the same issue with a Cheddite hull?

What everyoneís thoughts on adding a nitro card under the wad?

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byrdog
PostPosted: Sat Sep 01, 2018 1:04 pm  Reply with quote
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good plan if there is room the chedite wad is for 1.125 of lead but will hold about 1oz of bis. https://www.grafs.com/retail/catalog/product/productId/2495

I use it with 25grains of L S

https://www.rotometals.com/bismuth-shot/ best deal on #4

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WyoChukar
PostPosted: Sat Sep 01, 2018 1:04 pm  Reply with quote



Joined: 16 Jul 2015
Posts: 1095
Location: Hudson,Wy

Longshot is leaky stuff when combined with straight walled hulls and WAA16 wads. It leaks even more with SP16 wads. Definitely follow byrdogs advice. Yes Cheddite/ Herter's hulls will have the same problem. I will say from personal experience the the VP 80/ PT 1680 wads will seal up tight and not leak with any powder.

As far as killing ducks more effectively goes, I have found that the best way is to get them closer! All kidding aside, I have done extremely well with plain old steel shot, but choosing shot size depends on the duck size, and the choke constriction. What kind of ducks are you shooting? For teal I love #7 or #6 steel. For mallards, the nod goes to #4 or #3 depending on how tight my choke is. Many people like bismuth, but steel has worked well enough for me that I never saw the need to shoot the expensive alternative. That said, if money was no option, I would be shooting TSS.

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Emtymag
PostPosted: Sat Sep 01, 2018 4:06 pm  Reply with quote



Joined: 05 Oct 2017
Posts: 19
Location: Central MN

Iíve got a flat or so of factory federal #4 steel and Kent Bismuth #5 for ďearlyĒ season birds.

Just want to put down some fat green heads and some divers later in the year with the 16.

My LGS has a case or so of the older red box federal #2 steel. Maybe I should try them out.

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Emtymag
PostPosted: Fri Sep 14, 2018 6:56 am  Reply with quote



Joined: 05 Oct 2017
Posts: 19
Location: Central MN

Went with 7/8oz of steel #3 in a vp80 for now.



The set-up and first two off the press.
I ended up getting a Lee load all II for assembly after I hand weigh every thing first.
They pattern good and have rather stout recoil. See how they work later this season.

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Dave In AZ
PostPosted: Fri Sep 14, 2018 9:18 am  Reply with quote



Joined: 13 Oct 2015
Posts: 255

Emtymag wrote:
oldhunter wrote:
Fed 16 Plastic 1 oz. Longshot 25.0 Fed 209A SP-16 1300 8,000 Hodgdon 2000
Fed 16 Plastic 1 oz. Longshot 26.0 Fed 209A SP-16 1350 8,900 Hodgdon 2000
Fed 16 Plastic 1 oz. Longshot 27.0 Fed 209A SP-16 1400 9,800 Hodgdon 2000


Thank you.

I should have stated Iím using that load from Hodgdonís site.

I guess itís more of a what size Bismuth shot should I load type of question.

#4 or #5? Other?

Iíd like to anchor ducks better at that 30-40 yard range.


Those steel #3 loads you made look great! Also, I do think that 7/8 to 1oz of #3 steel in the 16ga is great for ducks out to 40 yds or so--I've been working on 1oz loads around 1500fps with some pressure tests, but got lazy over the last year and never sent in my follow up test shells.

If you go with bismuth, be sure you're using US shot size-- many bismuth use Euro sizing where #4 is really about #5! Rotometals shot is correct actual US sizes.

Bismuth #4 is much better than #5 IMO. #5 bismuth is only the same as steel #3, and you can already load up plenty of pellets with #3 steel in a 16ga-- it's a lot more money to achieve no increase really in what you can do with steel.

You may enjoy reading this I wrote, "Bismuth shot size and payload analysis"
https://pipesf16.wordpress.com/bismuth-shotpayload-size-analysis/

Here's a writeup on my last load of 410gr which is juuuust overpressure. Couple guys have told me the Fed hull would fix this vs. the cheddite, and I have 10 loaded up to send in but the whole UPS shipping from a main store has delayed me by... hmm, 2 years I guess LOL! Anyways, I believe a half grain reduction in powder on these ones would also get me a passing pressure, but again that's just conjecture:
https://pipesf16.wordpress.com/tested-16ga-410gr-steel-shot-overpressure/
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Hammer bill
PostPosted: Sat Sep 15, 2018 1:45 am  Reply with quote



Joined: 09 Feb 2015
Posts: 242

I keep it simple and humane. I still use lead period.
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Dave In AZ
PostPosted: Sat Sep 15, 2018 11:51 am  Reply with quote



Joined: 13 Oct 2015
Posts: 255

Hammer bill wrote:
I keep it simple and humane. I still use lead period.


uhmm... there's got to be more to that story? Are you in New Zealand or somewhere that lead is still legal for ducks? Or do you just shoot lead at ducks despite the law changes? Or just don't hunt ducks?
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Hammer bill
PostPosted: Sat Sep 15, 2018 1:54 pm  Reply with quote



Joined: 09 Feb 2015
Posts: 242

[quote="Dave In AZ"]
Hammer bill wrote:
I keep it simple and humane. I still use lead period.


uhmm... there's got to be more to that story? Are you in New Zealand or somewhere that lead is still legal for ducks? Or do you just shoot lead at ducks despite the law changes? Or just don't hunt ducks?[/quot

Don't hunt ducks as much anymore. Couple times in the fall. Yep. I use lead. Only humane way to kill a duck or goose. All this other shot was just to create a business. Proven fact that bismuth and the substitutes have more ducks die from wounds than lead poision which don't happen.
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