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castnblast
PostPosted: Thu Oct 11, 2018 12:54 pm  Reply with quote



Joined: 28 May 2008
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I keep hearing how GD is great for 3/4 and 7/8 loads but not ideal for 1oz. Looks like in a Fed hull its perfect for cold weather 1oz, maybe even 1 1/8 oz loads. Am I missing something? Whats wrong with 1 1/8 @1185 and 10,800psi?
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Dogchaser37
PostPosted: Thu Oct 11, 2018 12:55 pm  Reply with quote
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Nothing at all.

The issue is summed up in one word 'pressure'. Folks that don't understand 'pressure' get all worked up when 'pressure' approaches 11,500 PSI. So folks automatically start imposing their own 'standards'.

I like to let SAAMI come up with the standards, after all they are the folks engineering this stuff. I think they have a pretty good handle on it.

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castnblast
PostPosted: Thu Oct 11, 2018 2:02 pm  Reply with quote



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My point exactly. Isn't pressure a good thing? I want it to go BANG in cold weather. If the speed limit is 70, I don't drive 60 cause it might be easier in the truck. More like 75 or 80, or...
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mike campbell
PostPosted: Fri Oct 12, 2018 7:55 am  Reply with quote
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75 in a 70 ?!



Shenanigans like this will NOT be tolerated...







And that includes loading 16ga shells within 1,000 psi of the SAAMI recommendation.
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Dogchaser37
PostPosted: Fri Oct 12, 2018 10:33 am  Reply with quote
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Your humor is always interesting Mr. Campbell!!

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Dave Erickson
PostPosted: Fri Oct 12, 2018 11:37 am  Reply with quote
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Dogchaser37 wrote:
Your humor is always interesting Mr. Campbell!!


At least he didn't post his purple tea party picture!
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Dogchaser37
PostPosted: Fri Oct 12, 2018 3:12 pm  Reply with quote
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Uh - oh........

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PablosDryFliesAndBirdshot
PostPosted: Fri Oct 12, 2018 7:01 pm  Reply with quote



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Dave Erickson wrote:
Dogchaser37 wrote:
Your humor is always interesting Mr. Campbell!!


At least he didn't post his purple tea party picture!


I don't even want to know.
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castnblast
PostPosted: Sat Oct 13, 2018 4:41 am  Reply with quote



Joined: 28 May 2008
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So next question. At 20 degrees, how much pressure do you need for reliable ignition? I was thinking that hunting loads in that 10K plus range would be best, usually choosing the CB-16 over the SP16 for that reason.
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Dogchaser37
PostPosted: Sat Oct 13, 2018 5:28 am  Reply with quote
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There is no magic pressure level for reliable ignition. Generally if you look for a load that has a chamber pressure of 10,000 PSI things will be OK. However there a plenty of loads are listed below that pressure that are just fine. It all depends on the combination of components. Green Dot is a powder that shouldn’t be a problem when it gets cold.

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mike campbell
PostPosted: Sat Oct 13, 2018 1:03 pm  Reply with quote
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+1

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old colonel
PostPosted: Sat Oct 13, 2018 2:14 pm  Reply with quote
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For modern guns, nothing wrong with 10,500 PSI and the higher pressures are cleaner burning.

However, for guns not designed for SAAMI standards, not so much.

Pre WWII lightweight guns were not made for SAAMI and depending on how robustly they will built it is a bad idea. There are old higher grade lightweight L.C. Smiths and Foxes that were definitely not made for 10,500 PSI

For old UK game guns a good rule of thumb for pressure is no greater than 8,500 PSI.

Further pressure is not the only question, also recoil force, which is a function of shot load weight and velocity, can be an issue for older guns. There is not a solid line, but based on gun age, condition, and type, I stay with one ounce at 1150 FPS and no more than 1200 FPS on my 1oz proofmarked English guns.

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mike campbell
PostPosted: Sat Oct 13, 2018 8:42 pm  Reply with quote
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"There are old higher grade lightweight L.C. Smiths and Foxes that were definitely not made for 10,500 PSI "

What "psi" were they made for?

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WyoChukar
PostPosted: Sat Oct 13, 2018 10:53 pm  Reply with quote



Joined: 16 Jul 2015
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For decades I have used a lot of ammunition between 8,000 and 11,000 psi with zero cold weather problems. Powders have mostly been 700-X/Red Dot, 800-X, Green Dot, IMR 4756, and Longshot. When I say cold weather, I mean sub zero. Most of my lead ammo is loaded 8,500-9,500 psi. Steel shot loads are often loaded a bit higher, depending on the gun in question. But at any rate, don't feel a need to "load hot" when going out in the cold, it's not necessary when using reputable data.

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Dogchaser37
PostPosted: Sun Oct 14, 2018 6:12 am  Reply with quote
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Here is something that we have run across over the past few years that wasn't an option a few years ago......Euro primers(for lack of a better term).

It is my opinion that many of the Euro primers were made to ignite single based powders, which the Euro ammo manufacturers use more than the US manufacturers. Double base powders which the US manufacturers use and the powders that the reloader have access to, are more difficult to ignite than single base powder.

During the summer this doesn't seem to be a problem but as soon as the temperature drops, things don't go so well.

The only exception seems to be the Cheddite primers, those seem to do well with double base powder.

_________________________________________________________________

This is just me rambling on a bit but..........

I really don't remember bad loads during the cold weather back when the standard load was Red Dot, 700-X, Green Dot and Winchester 209 primers. When I hear of folks having trouble with the old standard powders not igniting in the cold, something just isn't right.

________________________________________________________________

....and then...........
I miss PB, SR7625 and SR4756.......I burned up a lot of SR7625 in both my 20 gauge guns and the 16. That stuff was easy to light off. I have just enough left for about 25 rounds of my all time favorite pheasant load of:

Remington RGL hull
Winchester 209 primer
20.0 Grains SR7625
SP16 wad
1 1/8 oz. #6 magnum lead

1,200 FPS

You can find that load in the Lyman 3RD Edition Shotshell Manual.

I am really glad Hodgdon made Universal and that Alliant made Unique a whole lot cleaner.

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