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16gaDavis
PostPosted: Thu Mar 28, 2019 4:05 pm  Reply with quote



Joined: 24 Jun 2013
Posts: 2062
Location: canandaigua - western n.y. (formerly deerhunter)

MSM....yeah it is - the 410 and LT20 were morphed off of the 28 Cool

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Molly sez AArrrooooooah !
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Pine Creek/Dave
PostPosted: Thu Mar 28, 2019 5:06 pm  Reply with quote



Joined: 17 Mar 2017
Posts: 2787
Location: Endless Mountains of Pa

Gentlemen,

I owned an 1100 as a child, then my Grandfather explained to me that Grown men do not hunt God's favorite Grouse bird with a Semi-Auto gun. God frowns on the disrespect to one of his greatest creations. I sold the 1100 shortly after being taught the reason for good double guns. Nothing has changed.

Now that is stirring the post.

Pine Creek/Dave
L.C. Smith Man

[URL=http://www.jpgbox.com/page/56684_800x600/] [/URL]

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Pine Creek Grouse Dog Trainers
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mike campbell
PostPosted: Thu Mar 28, 2019 5:46 pm  Reply with quote
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Joined: 16 Nov 2006
Posts: 1338

Rolling Eyes


Last edited by mike campbell on Fri Jul 26, 2019 6:49 am; edited 1 time in total
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MSM2019
PostPosted: Fri Mar 29, 2019 7:01 am  Reply with quote



Joined: 04 Mar 2019
Posts: 1819
Location: Central ND

Pine Creek/Dave,

Us heathens just love to hunt with firearms that have all sorts of monkey motion going on.....we enjoy watching the God fearing purists among us, shake their heads while our dogs are retrieving, as they stood there at the flush trying to figure out which trigger they need to pull! Cool Cool

Oh Yeah our dogs are GSP's!! Not those feathery Setter types!!

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Mark...You are entitled to your own opinion. You aren't entitled to your own facts.
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hayseed
PostPosted: Fri Mar 29, 2019 8:23 am  Reply with quote



Joined: 14 Feb 2017
Posts: 401

Page 4. Now we are getting somewhere.

Good natured sarcasm without hatred. Carry on.
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ROMAC
PostPosted: Fri Mar 29, 2019 8:24 am  Reply with quote



Joined: 07 Mar 2010
Posts: 482
Location: South Eastern PA

Pine Creek/Dave

I've noticed you own and shoot some very nice guns. I find myself usually agreeing with you about a lot of things. I did take note of your comment about 10 gauges mostly being telephone poles. You just have to find the right ones!

My Francotte weighs about the same as my 12 gauge Fox XE at (7lbs, 9.3 ounces)with 30 inch 3 weight barrels and definitely less than my Fox HE (8lbs, 11.9 ounces) with 32 inch barrels. Not that either of those Foxes would make great upland guns all things considered, but the Fox XE and the Francotte definitely get put to use every year when I know my walk is going to be reasonable mostly because it is just plain fun!

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MaximumSmoke
PostPosted: Fri Mar 29, 2019 9:03 am  Reply with quote
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Joined: 01 Dec 2005
Posts: 1550
Location: Minnesota and Florida

Some great pics of nice guns, guys. Thanks!

Back on the pattern considerations, the shot column of any given weight and shot size in a 20 is about 16 percent longer than that of a 16. For a one ounce load that is just a shade more than 1/8 inch. If that percentage difference is applied to a 10 foot shot string at the target, it means 1.6 feet difference. However, 1) that 16 percent might not apply at 25 to 40 yards because of shot "drafting", 2) the shot string is likely an elongated droplet-shaped cloud, with the dense end forward. Just my opinion, but I think there wouldn't be a big difference in the result. Now shoot 1 ounce from a 28 ga. vs. a 16 ga. and I think the difference becomes very significant, with the shot column being 44 percent longer, the ensuing higher pressures required to obtain the same muzzle velocities, and the greater exposure to shot damage due to launch setback and bore-scrub. But we still love the 28, and 3/4 oz. still does a nice job, doesn't it.

Cheers!
Tony
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MSM2019
PostPosted: Fri Mar 29, 2019 7:46 pm  Reply with quote



Joined: 04 Mar 2019
Posts: 1819
Location: Central ND

Maximum Smoke,

The length of the shot column doesn’t have much to do with the length of the shot string.

Shot string is created mainly on aerodynamics and how round the shot is once it is in free flight.

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Mark...You are entitled to your own opinion. You aren't entitled to your own facts.
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MaximumSmoke
PostPosted: Sat Mar 30, 2019 2:07 am  Reply with quote
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Joined: 01 Dec 2005
Posts: 1550
Location: Minnesota and Florida

Right-O, Mark. I did say the 16% from the 16 to 20 comparison might not apply to the shot string length, and I did mention shot "drafting" in the cloud, as well as bore scrub and launch setback damage (i.e. shot out-of-round) being greater in the 28-16 comparison, the inference being it is always there in greater effect as the shot column gets longer. The 16% comparison between the 20 and the 16 is small, so I don't expect a very noticeable difference between the patterning of the same amounts of the same shot in guns of those gauges -- at least when both are choked to give the same pattern percentages, of course.

Cheers!
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MSM2019
PostPosted: Sat Mar 30, 2019 3:53 am  Reply with quote



Joined: 04 Mar 2019
Posts: 1819
Location: Central ND

16ga.Davis,

Yup, you are correct......I should have known that...I had an LT-20.

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MSM2019
PostPosted: Sat Mar 30, 2019 3:54 am  Reply with quote



Joined: 04 Mar 2019
Posts: 1819
Location: Central ND

Maximum Smoke,

Cool Cool

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putz463
PostPosted: Sat Mar 30, 2019 4:17 am  Reply with quote
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Joined: 06 Oct 2007
Posts: 2343
Location: West MI

ROMAC, WOW! That thing should be hanging on a wall at the Louvre, WOW...

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Pine Creek/Dave
PostPosted: Sat Mar 30, 2019 12:33 pm  Reply with quote



Joined: 17 Mar 2017
Posts: 2787
Location: Endless Mountains of Pa

Putz463,

No sit that is not a wall hanger, that is a good gun to hunt birds with, no gun should ever become a wall hanger.

Pine Creek/Dave
L.C. Smith Man


Here is another one.
[URL=http://www.jpgbox.com/page/56715_800x600/] [/URL]

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