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wahoo
PostPosted: Sun Apr 14, 2019 6:40 am  Reply with quote



Joined: 22 Jan 2015
Posts: 193

Good point about steel shot usage. Guess any bbl work to prepare for that ought to be calculated into the total cost of ownership. So would it make sense to lengthen the forcing cones in this scenario? Is it the general consensus that chokes should be opened to at least “modified” if planning to use steel?

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1929 Thomas Bland 16ga SxS 28"
1918 Stevens 520 12ga pump 30"
1948 BRNO 16ga SxS 27.5"
1950 Stevens 311A 12ga SxS 30"
1952 BRNO 12ga SxS 28.25"
1963 Superposed O/U 12ga 27"
1968 V Bernardelli SxS 12ga 28"
1972 Rem 1100 12ga Auto 26"
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Ted Schefelbein
PostPosted: Sun Apr 14, 2019 6:54 am  Reply with quote



Joined: 19 Jun 2004
Posts: 1327
Location: Mpls, MN.

I have guns I can feed steel to. They are not doubles. I have an older Uggy 12 that I keep threatening to shoot steel out of, but, haven’t, yet. It is a 3” chamber magnum proofed gun that has CYL and I CYL chokes. I bought it when the market was flooded with Spanish doubles by a confiscatory tax policy, in Spain, for $400.

The days of being able to walk into a hardware store, or, Sears, or Montgomery Wards, and buying a decent, using quality double shotgun, for a week or two of working man wages, are long past. The latest attempt I have seen to produce a similar item is the Savage, produced by CSMC. It is a very basic double gun in 12 or 20 gauge.

It costs 5K.

When I use non toxic out of a double, it has been, to date, Heavi-Metal, or Bismuth. The steel loads I see recently are all very high velocity, in the neighborhood of 1400 FPS, or so, and I really don’t want to feed them to any old doubles.

Best,
Ted

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John Singer
PostPosted: Sun Apr 14, 2019 9:46 am  Reply with quote



Joined: 03 Sep 2014
Posts: 194
Location: Rochester, MN

wahoo wrote:
Good point about steel shot usage. Guess any bbl work to prepare for that ought to be calculated into the total cost of ownership. So would it make sense to lengthen the forcing cones in this scenario? Is it the general consensus that chokes should be opened to at least “modified” if planning to use steel?


Opening fixed full chokes to modified or more open is definitely recommended for the use of steel shot.

I one time opened a fixed full on a 12 gauge Winchester Model 12 from 0.695 (full) to 0.715 (light modified). It is, by far one of my best patterning/performing guns with steel shot.

I have been using my 16 gauge Stevens 5100 for nearly 10 years with steel. I opened the left barrel to modified. There is no scoring of the choke and no sign of a ring bulge.

The issue with a full choke and steel is that steel is not malleable and may bridge when constricted in the choke. If the diameter of the shot charge on the wad is greater than the inside diameter of the choke, then the plastic wad will give way and the shot can score the choke or the resulting pressure can bulge the barrel.

In a single barrel gun, a ring bulge is ugly and may be considered mearly cosmetic. In a double, it can separate the ribs and barrels.

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WyoChukar
PostPosted: Sun Apr 14, 2019 4:37 pm  Reply with quote



Joined: 16 Jul 2015
Posts: 1339
Location: Hudson,Wy

The ring bulge thing is open for debate. I do own a 28 ga. Spanish double I picked up cheap and it has a noticeable bulge in the left barrel. I have sent thousands of rounds through it for years and nothing has separated at the ribs. Can it? Sure. But I have a Syracuse Lefever E grade that I bought for a project and it has spit the forearm lug already and the top rib is loose. It never saw a round of steel in it's days and appears to have been used little judging by the case colors and other factors.

I do have a Syracuse Lefever DS 16 ga. that is a great example for me to use here though. It's a light little gun with barrels struck to make it that way. The taper at the chamber end was gentle enough to allow lengthening the forcing cones, and I did. The right barrel was pretty tight, more so than the left, so I reamed it to .006" for my intended uses. In know, "oh the horror", well the barrels had been rebelled anyway and this too is a fix up project...for me. The left barrel measure at .023" of choke, the dividing line between mod and imp. mod choke. I like that, and it remains that way.

Now for the next horror of horrors, not only is it my favorite firearm for ruffed and blue grouse, I shoot ducks and geese with it on occasion. This was my "go to" gun when hunting no-tox refuge zones in Kansas for quail and pheasants as well. It has digested a case or two (more like two) worth of my steel shot reloads, sizes #7 through #1. If you look hard and careful, those light peening marks are indeed there, but not an issue. Chokes are fine.

My favorite 12 ga. steel shot gun at the moment? A Nitro Special that once belonged to a friend of mine.

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wahoo
PostPosted: Sun Apr 14, 2019 4:44 pm  Reply with quote



Joined: 22 Jan 2015
Posts: 193

Wyo, you mentioned your reloads....as already mentioned here, the typical steel factory loads are high velocity, stout loads. I wonder if the typical 1oz 16ga load done in steel is a good reference point as well. I understand that steel holds tighter than lead generally speaking, so is that addressed some way in reloading, or is it more a matter of learning how to shoot it?

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1929 Thomas Bland 16ga SxS 28"
1918 Stevens 520 12ga pump 30"
1948 BRNO 16ga SxS 27.5"
1950 Stevens 311A 12ga SxS 30"
1952 BRNO 12ga SxS 28.25"
1963 Superposed O/U 12ga 27"
1968 V Bernardelli SxS 12ga 28"
1972 Rem 1100 12ga Auto 26"
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WyoChukar
PostPosted: Tue Apr 16, 2019 8:49 pm  Reply with quote



Joined: 16 Jul 2015
Posts: 1339
Location: Hudson,Wy

I have not chronographed my steel load. I started with a BPI load using 7/8 oz. that if I remember was about 1400 fps. I backed it down a grain on the powder charge and it pierced a few primers! That's BPI for you. Since then I backed it down another grain. One of these days I may borrow my buddy's chrono and check. I may have to post the velocities of my long range 1 3/4 oz. 10 ga. steel loads, just to put people in shock since so many people have drank the "speed is everything" Kool-aid...

Yes, steel does pattern tighter than lead. Every gun is different, but about one choke tighter (mod patterns full, etc.) is normal unless you use Win Expert (stuff is lumpy welding slag at best) or Blindside (bricks in the wind, literally).

Nothing special about reloading steel. Basically, if the pattern is too tight, use less choke. I have not tried it, but it should be possible to open steel patterns up by using Polywad spreader inserts in your loads. If I lived where I had to use non toxic for blue and ruffed grouse, I would try it.

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