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Joined: 20 Jun 2011 Posts: 119 Location: Illinois

Im sure its been debated many times about what load to use when you will run into pheasant and quail on the same hunt, not knowing which one is going to flush when. One of the places I quail hunt is non toxic only, but there are enough pheasants there that shooting steel 6s or 7s really doesn't cut it.

Having the non toxic only requirement kind of throws a wrench into finding the perfect load. But that is why I reload. My solution is to take this steel load from precision and do 210r #5 bismuth with 210gr #6 steel on top. That should give me 250 pellet count (100 #5 bis & 150 #6 steel) I had to add 1/4" felt below the shot to raise the shot height.

Let me know what you think. I plan on taking it to the patterning board sometime next week.

Mike

https://www.precisionreloading.com/docs/uploads/TUWSBL1627%20Load%20Data%20-%20Website.pdf

Ched hull
Ched 209
Blue Dot 27.0
TUWSBL1627 w/ 1/4" 20ga felt
15/16
1,363
10,960

Joined: 18 Apr 2018 Posts: 28 Location: Alaska

First, put the steel on the bottom. Bismuth on the bottom increases the risk of damaging the bismuth shot.
Steel shot decelerates more quickly than bismuth shot. Having the steel in front may mess up the pattern, but the patterning board may catch that.
Having steel and bismuth in the same load may mess up the shot string, and the patterning board will not catch that.
If I was determined to mix two sizes of shot I would go all bismuth. There are many 16 gauge loads for bismuth, 1or 1 1/8 ounce in Lyman #5 or for 1 ounce in Hodgdon on line reloading guide.
Also, bismuth will not require velocities as high as for steel.

Joined: 04 Mar 2019 Posts: 1841 Location: Central ND

Duplex loads are not a good idea as you are in effect creating two different shot clouds, especially using two dissimilar pellet types.

How about loading two identical loads except for bismuth pellet sizes.

The first load using #6 the second load using #5.

I would not even mess with the steel loads.

Joined: 25 Jan 2014 Posts: 229 Location: MN

Kent Bismuth 6's in the chamber, Bismuth 5's or 4 's in the mag, or second barrel.

Joined: 03 Sep 2014 Posts: 398 Location: Rochester, MN

I use steel shot for all of my upland hunting.

For pheasants, in my 16 gauge SxS, I shoot 7/8 oz #4 steel in the right barrel and #3 in the left.

If I was to hunt pheasants and quail together, I would likely use #5 steel in the right barrel and #4 in the left.

John, Mcrewz,
With steel, I would agree with you on your choice of #4 steel in one barrel . I have killed a relatively good number of wild pheasants with 7/8 or 15/16 oz factory loads of #4 steel out a 16.

My preference for the quail load in steel (where pheasants may be expected) would be # 6 steel however. (disclosure--I have never loaded #5 steel, nor shot it at a quail). The reason, my brother and I have killed hundred of quail over the last dozen or so years with 7/8 oz of 6s and 7s reloaded steel on federal land, where non-tox is required. (another disclosure--ain't a wild pheasant to be found in AR, so the guns are loaded up with quail loads only).

The other reason, over 20 years of hunting pheasants in east central Iowa where quail are occasionally found, I have been caught with only pheasant loads in my gun when quail got up many, many times. I have given lots of "trys" with 1 and 1/8 oz of lead #5s out of a 16, about the only load I have ever used on pheasants. Lead #5s do a very poor job of knocking quail out of the air! My guess is I only killed about 20% of quail with lead #5s (although the lead 1 and 1/8 HV 7.5s I put in the first barrel in KS, where both birds are common, is great for quail and pheasants over dogs--I probably kill 2/3rds of the quail that get up with the lead 7.5s out of the first barrel and only rarely kill a bob with the 5s on the second shot.)

I suspect steel 5s would be about like lead 5s, even though there is about 20 more pellets in 7/8 steel vs. 1 and 1/8 lead. That is, less than optimum for quail.

So, it would be a fairly stout load of steel 6s for me in the first barrel in mixed quail/pheasant country and a #4 steel for the second shot, very similar to the lead 7.5 first barrel/#5 lead second barrel I've used for years and years in KS and NE.

My opinion, of course, and certainly I respect your recommendations and experience.

If going to Bismuth, it would be 6s in the first barrel, and #5s in the second. Both should do a number on pheasants and the 6s should be OK on quail.

Joined: 03 Sep 2014 Posts: 398 Location: Rochester, MN

4setters, I defer to and greatly respect your experience with quail.

#6 steel would likely be a better choice than #5 when quail are a possibility. Also, af close range, #6 steel should be adequate for pheasant.

Joined: 16 Jul 2015 Posts: 2125 Location: Hudson,Wy

I wouldn't mix shot sizes, let alone types since as mentioned, you end up with two shot strings. They don't retain/ lose velocity at the same rate. It's like having a .410 with double triggers with a different load in each chamber and pulling both triggers at once. You end up with two charges that are mighty thin.

I have killed pheasants with #7 or 6 steel when quail hunting, but they were mighty close, about 20 yards. I have killed plenty of quail with #7 steel and recommend it highly. 4's or 3's work a lot better on pheasants, really well in fact.

During my 2017 hunt in Kansas I carried a Lefever double in non toxic zones with #7 steel in the open barrel and #3 steel in the tighter barrel unless my dog showed definite signs of trailing a runner (rooster). Then I switched the tight barrel to 3's also. Many times I was hunting where I knew a covey of quail would be and switched to 7's in both barres or a #7 & #6 combo. Of course there were a couple of times when both quail and a roosters were in the same weed patch or brush pile and one time they erupted simultaneously. Thus those few pheasants shot close with light shot.

Joined: 20 Jun 2011 Posts: 119 Location: Illinois

I took it to the patterning board and the patterns were not good. Iwill probably go with #6steel or wait for another Rotometal sale and try some #6 bismuth.