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Joined: 22 Jan 2015 Posts: 345

What are the pros and cons of each vs the other? Afterwards, how much nicer is the Savage Fox Sterlingworth, than either of these and what makes the most difference? Is it significantly better balance and weight? All in 16 ga.

I don't know what the date range is on guns stamped 5100; I have them in 16, 20 and .410, all pre-1949. I frankly don't think a Model B would be much of an upgrade over a Stevens from that era. I doubt it would be significantly lighter; might have slightly better wood, etc. You get a little engraving etc. on the Model B. Even with those earlier is better; I don't really care for the later B's with beavertail and single trigger but that's just personal preference. My 16ga 5100 weights a hair under 7lbs with 28" barrels.

The only Model B I've owned was a 12ga c. 1960 and it was a good basic gun; it had double triggers and a splinter forend and a vent rib. Weighed 7-4 with 28" barrels. Most folks feel that the Model B is a Fox in name only

The Sterlingworths are a different story all together; same innards as even the highest grade Foxes. Earlier Philly ones are the favorites, but I have Utica Sterlies in 16, 20 and 12 and I love them. Utica guns usually have a bit more modern dimensions and 2-3/4 chambers and will handle a bit stronger loads. Some say the fit and finish is lacking and that may be true but for hunting guns I personally think they're great. My Sterly 16 weighs 6-8.

Others may chime in on more technical stuff; I'm not much of a techie and can only relate my experiences.

Joined: 22 Jan 2015 Posts: 345

Thanks for your input feather. Sounds like the 5100 is the preferred version of the two. How would you compare performance btwn the 1500 and a later model Sterlingworth, both 16 ga. 28” bbls?

Joined: 13 Jun 2009 Posts: 695 Location: WA/AK

The 5100 is actually an action type. In 1936, J. Stevens Arms Co. replaced their G.S. Lewis patent action doubles with the coil-spring driven strikers, the Springfield No. 315 and J. Stevens No. 330 with a new action with internal hammers rotating about an axle. The J. Stevens version was called the No. 530 and the Springfield No. 515. Early on the actions were marked 5000 and still used the two-piece top-lever and spindle of the G.S. Lewis guns and a bit later went to a one-piece top-lever and spindle marked 5100. Savage took the internal parts of their J. Stevens No. 530 and put them in a slightly nicer profiled and decorated, black gun-metal finished receiver, fitted it with a bit nicer stock and introduced it in 12-, 16- and 20-gauges, with an insert in their 1939 A.H. Fox catalog --

By Savage's 1940, A.H. Fox catalog --

the .410-bore was added to the offerings.

The Fox-Sterlingworth is an actual Ansley H. Fox design. In July 1940, the Model B was $26 while a real Fox-Sterlingworth was $48.95

Guest

The only thing I can add is to buy the Sterlingworth. I have a Utica Sterlingworth 12 and it's one of the best built and performing shotguns I own.

Joined: 22 Jan 2015 Posts: 345

Nice guns feather. So can you be more specific with what makes the Sterlingworth “hands down” so much better? I don’t doubt your assertion, but am trying to gain a better understanding of what elements or characteristics of a functional nature apply in making the Fox so much better. Again, as far as using the gun goes, does it somehow feel or perform much better than the Stevens? $1k is a big cost difference. What does it gain you in the field? Thx

Joined: 22 Jan 2015 Posts: 345

Researcher, I read a number times where different folks claim that the 5100 is the same as a 311. However I can see that the action frame on the 5100 series, does not have the same profile as a 311. I have slso read that the Stevens 5100 series guns carried different manufacturing location markings according to years of production. I wonder when a Stevens with 5100 stamped on action was made, if labled Stevens, Savage Arms Co, Chicopee Falls Mass. Also, what model name did Stevens give those built there and labled 5100?

Joined: 13 Jun 2009 Posts: 695 Location: WA/AK

There wasn't a Stevens Model 311 until 1948. From 1928/9 until WW-II there was a Springfield No. 311, but it was built on the G.S. Lewis patent striker action.

The No. 311 had a plain wood stock and forearm and was introduced just in time for The Great Depression, as a cheaper version of the Springfield No. 315 which had a checkered walnut stock and forearm.

In 1940, J. Stevens Arms Co. introduced a variation of their 5100 action J. Stevens No. 530, called the No. 530-M with a stock and forearm of Tenite --

The No. 530-M remained in the J. Stevens line into 1946. With the end of WW-II, Savage Arms Corp. consolidated their firearms manufacture at their J. Stevens factories in Chicopee Falls, Mass., and the factory at Utica went to making products for the post-war housing boom.

In the 1947 Savage/Stevens/Springfield/Fox catalog the gun that had been the J. Stevens No. 530-M was now shown as the Springfield No. 311 --

By the 1948 Savage/Stevens/Fox catalog the Tenite stocked 5100 action double was called the Stevens Model 311 --

By 1951, the Tenite stocks were gone and the Stevens Model 311 got a wood stock and forearm. This essentially gave Savage Arms Corp. three levels of utility doubles on the same action. Through 1953, they were the Stevens Model 311 $59.95; the Stevens Model 530 $65.75; and the Fox Model B $75.50. They must have decided that was too many and by the 1954 catalog the Stevens Model 530 was gone, though it was still on the price list. For 1951, 2 and 3 the Model 311 is listed as having a walnut finish wood stock. After the Model 530 was dropped the Model 311 is listed with a Walnut stock and forearm until the move to Westfield, 1961, when it reverts to walnut finish wood.

You boys are a wealth of information.
Thank you,
longgunnm

You know Wahoo you might just have me there. The Fox is a little lighter, a bit trimmer, finished out a bit better, feels livelier in the hands. But then I'm prejudiced -to me there is no gun that feels like a sixteen gauge Fox. Maybe it's a pride of ownership thing. Is it worth $1K more than the Stevens? It is to me; might not be to everyone. I love that old Stevens, and like I said, worth every penny I paid for it. Killed a lot of birds with it too. But it ain't a Fox.

Joined: 04 Oct 2015 Posts: 280 Location: Clemson

I own all 3 in 16 ga. The 5100 and the Fox BSE are similar. They sre heavier and clunkier ( if thats a word) than my Philly Sterlingworth. The Sterlingworth looks and feels like a quality built shotgun.... the other two don't. They are like having a Yugo, a Volkswagen, and a Mercedes-Benz. They will all get you from point A to point B, but they aint the same. The rabbits and quail I've killed with these guns are all equally dead.
I do have a fondness for the 5100. I have the12, 16 ,20, and 410 with the setter engraved on the left side of all the receivers. The 12ga came from my father. It was his only gun.....

Joined: 22 Jan 2015 Posts: 345

I think I get the picture regarding the attraction to the Sterlingworth. Some things simply must be experienced to understand, and I suspect the Fox design is that way.

Researcher, I’m gathering from your last bit of info, that the earlier walnut stocked, Stevens made in Chicopee, 5100 stamped action guns were marketed as model 311. Is that correct? If so, at what point did the actions stamped 5100 go away and we are left with the 311 version which does not have the frame relieves along the bottom, but rather that straight edge all the way to the end by the forearm?

Joined: 13 Jun 2009 Posts: 695 Location: WA/AK

I don't know. The term 5000 and 5100 never appear in J. Stevens or Savage/Stevens/Fox gun catalog. They are used in parts catalogs. Here from November 1, 1951, they list the receiver as being "Stamped 5100, 311A or 530A on frame."

Notice how many Fox Model B parts are the same --