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The Citori WL that I picked up this fall is about 1/2" short of what I need for the DAH. When I shoot high gun on skeet or SC I shoot pretty well. Low gun is a different story. Mainly, I believe, due to needing more DAH to comfortably get my head down. Bad news for hunting.

I'm considering adding a recoil pad to it to add the length and get the DAH that I need for a good fit. I don't really know my options though. Is it feasible to have the stock bent (could I add a little cast as well)? I appreciate your opinions on either option or other options. I am also asking your thoughts as to what is a good recoil pad, both style and function for a Citori WL.

Additionally, where would one get said work done? I'm not a big fan of big box stores, but Gander offers some smithing work? I would prefer to send my business to someone with a solid reputation that comes recommended. Any thoughts on cost?

Looking forward to hearing your thoughts.

Chopper

As a side note, I was at Dicks today looking for some remy game loads. When I asked the clerk he told me they don't carry 16ga game loads! I litteraly laughed out loud. I felt bad for the outburst and told him kindly I've purchaed 2 flats there in the last 2 months. I got a kick out of it.

Member Joined: 08 Nov 2005 Posts: 3438 Location: Illinois

A R.A.D. unit will solve all the problems

Any of these fellas could bend your stock. An adjustable comb might be a good option if the LOP is OK and allows for some 'fine tuning.'

Jim Greenwood Augusta Kansas (316) 775-0161 http://www.greenwoodstocks.com

http://www.greghissemstockworks.com/ for adjustable combs

Dan Lammers DL Precision AZ 602-298-4635
Stock bending and adjustable combs

307-436-5561, 10am-7pm MST
stocks@highstream.net
Robert Fulton
18 Sage Hill Rd
Box 1843
Glenrock, WY 82637-1843

Dennis Smith
The Stock Doctor
83134 Tygh Valley Road
Tygh Valley, OR 97063-9797
(541) 483-2182
thestockdr@riflemag.com

Thanks for the tips. The R.A.D. seems it would be efficent at solving the the fit issue.

Chopper, before altering the stock or adding expensive hardware, why not add a sufficiently thick piece of firm closed cell foam taped to the butt as a temporary recoil pad. I don't know what your stature is, but if you are a 6 footer or over and/or are of lanky build, a longer stock will put your eye lower on the comb and closer to the rib. You can adjust the thickness until you find the right LOP for you.

But first look at how you are mounting the gun from low position. Some folks bring the stock to their shoulder first, then put their head to the stock. They also bring the gun to face with the barrels elevated above the butt, then lower the barrel into line. This will cause problems with putting your eye in line with the rib accurately and the worst problem is exactly yours, high shooting. Try this. Practice bringing your gun up flat and level to your cheek first with your eye right down the rib at the right height. In essence, you are bringing the gun to your eye.

If you then have to throw your shoulder into the stock a fair bit to get a snug fit, the LOP is too short for you. You will know it immediately. If the gun drags along your shoulder before you get the comb to your cheek with your eye right down the rib, the stock is too long.

Bringing the gun horizontally flat up to your cheek at the right place on the comb is the correct way to mount a shotgun. It is exactly the same as what the old timers refered to as bringing the gun to your eye. That is the right way. Any stock fit problems will jump right out at you if you try this method of mounting a gun. Make your alterations from there. Hope this helps.

16GG,

I believe I do "throw [my] shoulder into the stock". To get a good sight picture, neither floating the bead nor buring it, starting high gun I find that I am pushing my right shoulder forward and pressing my cheek very hard against the stock. I end up scrunched up around the stock and with a bruised cheek after two rounds of skeet. I'm not shooting anything hot either, just Remington GL's...

I really enjoyed the weight of the Citori 16 in the field this year, but I didn't shoot it like I do my 870 12ga. I want to shoot my 16 like I do the 12 and I think it has to do with fit. I'm 5'10" for reference.

I looked at foam pad recoil pads today, the kind with the neoprene sleeve and foam inserts of varying thinckness, and they are running about $35 at Gander. That's a little more than I was hoping to pay for an experiment. Where would one go about getting cheap closed cell foam? I already have duct tape.

Chopper

Chopper, I did not mean to confuse you. From what you just posted about having to throw your shoulder too far forward, shooting all scrunched up, and having a 5' 10" frame (and I'm betting also a bit long of arm and neck than average too and/or wide of shoulder), it sounds like your buttstock is a bit too short. You simply might need only a longer length of pull. That is an easy, fairly inexpensive fix.

I'm referring to adding a temporary scrap piece of foam to the end of your butt stock over the hard plastic butt plate to lengthen your stock. You can use any piece cut from discarded packing material or some similar souce for a trial run. Just tape on different thicknesses until you find the right length of pull you need. Once you know, you can have a good quality recoil pad like a Pachmeyer Decelorator or a Kickeez installed to both lengthen the stock and ease the felt recoil on your shoulder.

The drop at comb and heel, essentially the slope line of your Citori's field type stock, is very close to that of your Remington 870 if the Remington's butt stock is also a field version and unmodified except for maybe the LOP. Lengthening your stock from the rear by adding a pad puts your eye further back and lower to the rib along the comb line of a typical field stock. Shortening the stock raises the eye. Lowering your eye in relation to the flat plane of the rib will make you hit lower and raising it make you shoot higher. So unless your eye is already too low and below the flat plane of the rib or worse, buried below the back of the reciever, you have some room for correction.

I'm betting you are seeing too much rib unless you scrunch your neck in and lean your head too far foreward to angle your eye closer to the rib. you are also probably getting socked by recoil in this position. It sounds like you are trying to shoot like a turtle with its head pulled in. Laughing

If you feel like this, not to worry, there is an easy fix.

However, and assuming you shoot right-handed, first make sure to place your feet on a line angled 45 degrees left of a straightaway target or spot where your barrel would point if you were shooting at one. Your shoulders should also be on the same line as your feet. Your head will be almost squarely facing the target. This will put your body in a neutral left-right position with your right shoulder socket just about behind the gun's butt when you mount the gun to your cheek and eye. Its referred to as opening your stance.

All good wingshooting starts here with your feet and shoulders in this open stance position. If you learn this little trick, you can adjust to a slightly long or a slightly short stock by opening or closing your stance a bit. However, for determining your initial correct LOP, use the 45 degee opened stance and add or remove some foam from the butt until you feel comfortabley behind the gun with your cheek squarely on the comb, and your eye is looking right down the rib at the correct height.

Standing with your toes in line with the barrel on a straightawy target will put your right shoulder too far back and left of the gun butt rather than behind the gun butt. Doing so will make you try to bend your shoulders forward and around the gun like a bow. It is uncomfortable and throws your body out of kilter. It also makes determining your correct LOP measurement impossible. hitting left angled targets is also nearly impossible. This bad foot position is probably the most common mistake in form. If you are doing this, stop and correct your foot position first to an open stance before doing anything else. The results will amaze you and make shooting a lot more comfortable.

After you try my suggestions, feel free to get back to me. I think we are now on the right track to solving your gun fitting problem.

You are correct on LOP, recoil, etc. Thank you for the tip on foot position. I'll post back or PM the results.

Chopper

I tinkered with the length of the Citori to see if that would fixed my issue with alligning my eye with barrel. I used pressed fiber bar coasters and cut them to the shape of the stock. This gave me the ability to adjust the length by 1/8" increments.

I ended up adding nearly an inch in leagth to get my eye level with the barrel w/out brusing my cheek pressing it against the stock. Eye alignment was great! I then proceeded to shoulder the gun as I would while hunting or shooting low gun. Rats! I couldn't get the gun to shoulder without snagging it on my arm pit/chest/etc!

Baffeled, I pulled out my 870 and placed it right above the Citori. The distance measured from the trigger to the butt is actually longer on the Citori by nearly 3/4"! Looking closer, I noted the rib on the 870 is higher and tapers down to the bead. Essentially, I'm looking down on the bead and my perception that my eye is level with the barrel is a matter if rib height/design.

So, I still have issues with my Citori. Being that I shoot my 870 so well looking down on the bead, I'm wondering what is the pattern distribution above and below the bore for both guns? I've read that shotguns distribute a percentage of the pattern above and below the bore that is rarely 50/50. Could it be that I shoot my Remy better b/c it distributes more pattern below the bore than above?

Chopper

I'd say trim the coasters back until you can shoulder the gun easily without the snagging. Then shoot a round or two of skeet. you should watch your foot placement carefully when setting up on the station. Try a 14-1/2 inch lop from the trigger to the back of the coasters. If you can go a bit more, do so. However, keep in mind how much clothing you wear while hunting. you might want to wear your togs while doing this.

Another point to watch is where you place the butt on your shoulder. The butt should be well in the pocket or hollow your shoulder and chest muscle form when you shoulder your gun and lift your right arm so your elbow sticks straight out or just a sliver of a tad lower. Quite a few folks place the butt too high on the collar bone above this pocket or too far out on the shoulder. Some even mount the gun out on the arm. Get the top (heel) of the butt down just under your collar bone and into the pocket every time with your feet at the prescribed 45 degrees. Doing so makes it easier to put your cheek on the comb with your eye down the rib when shouldering a field stock. That is what the drop to heel is for. Try doing this. Keep working it around until you feel comfortable. It will come with a bt of practice. This is what is ment as being IN THE GUN.

you might find it benificial to see just a sliver of rib behind the bead on your Citori. Your gun should shoot a 55 to 60 percent high pattern anyway. Most of us unconciously float a rising target a bit by an inch or so when we are shooting at a live bird. We want to see the whole bird usually. so this little bit of high pattern compensates for our tendancy very well.

As far as your 870, there is no way to predict how much under or over the middle you are placing the pattern. you will have to shoot a point of impact test target. you should do the same with the Citori too once you get it to fit you without dragging on your clothes.

Shoot at least 6 shots from about 30 yards with a full choke all together on one 48 inch square piece of paper with an aiming dot about dead center. Start with your gun pointing at the bottom edge of the sheet with your eyes locked on the mark. Bring the gun to the aiming dot smoothly. Shoot when you feel the barrel is pointing dead at the dot. Do not stop your upward swing or look back at the barrel when doing this. You might want to practice some dry firing with snap caps first to get used to the move and to learn to concentrate on the dot without glancing at your barrel.

The core of the accumulated shot pattern will be very easy to see from the number of shots. The more shots you take, the more accurate your findings will be. A dozen is not too much for a good test. Any adjustments to the stock start form there. Raising or lowering your eye along the comb line will do the same to your POI.

If you can't get a decent pattern centered a tad high on the dot, then you might need to have the stock comb height reconfigured or the stock bent. But do the test first. The results just might pleasantly surprise you.

Then, if you are on with the pattern test but still shoot high once in a while, you are probably lifting your head during the shot. This is a common problem that comes from getting whacked in the cheek from an ill fitting gun. We tend to do this even after the gun fits us. It take a bit of practice with very light loads like 3/4 ounce skeet loads or shoooting a .410 for a while to overcome the head lifting. Dry firing at a spot on the wall at home will help too.

One other suggestion. Get some videos of top SC and skeet shooters doing their thing. Watch the guys with average builds closely and how they mount their guns, where their feet are, etc. If you watch them carefully, and use stop action fairly often, you will see the proper way to mount a gun. Discount any wierd or atypical shooting styles. a few guys shoot well but shoot pretty strangely. Just look for the common way. Once you see it, you will recognise any errors you are making in your own mount. Just use a good sized mirror and check yourself out. If anyone makes any smart assed remarks, just tell them you are pissed at the mirror and they are next. Laughing