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Member Joined: 30 Nov 2011 Posts: 1696 Location: Minnesota

Another member that I was talking to recently mentioned how well he did on pheasants this past year with the B&P 1 1/16 oz load. It seems 1 1/16oz never gets discussed here. Does anyone use it in either their own load or a factory one? A old G&A article by Steve Gash lists:
Fed hull
22.5 HS6
BP SG16 wad
CCI209 primer
14.5sd
1209 fps

What say you?

Member Joined: 16 Dec 2007 Posts: 592 Location: Minnesota

I've always considered 15/16 and 1 1/16 as British payloads. I have reloaded both and as a general rule found them to pattern better than 1 and 1 1/8 loads. YMMV.

I used to hunt the Dakotas often and shot 1 1/16 (Bismuth and lead) as a late season load. In those days I was shooting a 6 1/2 lb OU 16ga. I liked the payload for larger shot and as I recall thought it fit nicely into a 2 3/4" hull with good crimps.

There are not many published loads or retail shells so that is part of the reason you dont hear about those payloads. Several of the 15/16 and 1 1/16 LPG loads are from my days of developing/testing those payloads. Off the top of my head HS6 and LS powders were what I used for 1 1/16 loads.

Joined: 04 Mar 2019 Posts: 1837 Location: Central ND

1 1/16 oz. of #6 pellets has 14 more pellets than a 1 oz. load and 14 less pellets than a 1 1/8 oz. load.....that is pretty much splitting hairs.

I am from the school of thought, if I am going to make a change it will be a meaningful change.

YMMV.

Joined: 11 Dec 2017 Posts: 77 Location: South Dakota

Joined: 28 Mar 2008 Posts: 1460 Location: Eagle, Nebraska

My upland loads are 1 1/16oz
Using Longshot

I like my old Winchester Mark 5 duplicating 1 and 1/8 oz. High Velocity reloads with HS-6 so much I wouldn't consider dropping down 1/16th of and oz. on them. On the other hand, I might consider going up a 1/16th on a low or moderate velocity 1 oz. loads for quail and some other upland birds in a 16 if there was a lot of data out there.

In reality, the only time I ever reloaded 1 and 1/16th oz. loads was back in the 70s or early 80s. I have an old brown DuPont handloaders guide (no date, or edition number) that lists a one oz. load and a 1 and 1/8 oz load for SR 4756 powder. Somewhere along the line I came by a pound of it. In both Federal and Winchester CF hulls the 1 and 1/8 oz load was too full with the recipes in the manual (Win 209: 24.5 or 24.0 grains 4756, respectively; SP 16 wad; 1190 fps for both hulls; 7800 and 9000 LUP, respectively). Almost identical loads for 1 oz. of shot were listed: Win 209; 23.5 and 23.0 grains of 4756, respectively; R16 wads; 1180 and 1150 fps, respectively; 6800 and 7000 LUP, respectively. Since I wanted a moderate to high velocity load, I ended up using Federal Hulls, Win 209s, 24.0 grains of 4756, SP16 wads and 1 and 1/16 oz. of shot, splitting the difference between the two Federal hull loads above, both in terms of powder and shot. Crimps of this load were just right!

This was the first and last 4756 powder I ever used! I shot most of them at pheasants, and they seemed too weak to me. Went back to Winchester 540 (and later HS-6) and ain't looked back.

Joined: 04 Mar 2019 Posts: 1837 Location: Central ND

From an internal ballistics POV, there is not going to be much of a difference in the numbers from 1 oz. or 1 1/8 oz. loads.

If a person thinks that they would like 1 1/16 oz. loads, I would use 1 1/8 oz. data.

Heck most MEC bars drop light, especially with magnum shot and folks that use unaltered MEC 1 1/8 oz. bars are probably shooting 1 1/16 oz. loads.

Joined: 07 Sep 2014 Posts: 419

If you interpolate loads and dimensions, a 1 1/16 ounce load would be about the same as a 1 1/8 in a 12 gauge.

Guest

Dammit, you made me come out of my cave. Cool

A couple comments...

I was the guy talking to Savage 16 about the B&P loads. While they worked extremely well, I pointed out that it was more a matter of the gun/load/shooting combination than just the load. The way I was shooting my Iside I would have done well with any similar load. That said, I think they are an ideal hunting load for my modern 16 gauge doubles.

Mark is spot-on regarding the MEC bar. I looked in my binder and at one point I messed around with the load below from the Hodgdon website. It's data for a 1 1/8 oz load and they still have it listed.

Hodgdon Longshot Win. 209 Rem. SP16 20.2 8,900 PSI 1,185 fps

It's hard to read, but in my notes I added that the MEC 1 1/8 oz bar dropped 1 1/16 oz of Lawrence Mag. 7's.

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I never did do anymore with the load, but I think it's a good one.

Joined: 11 Dec 2017 Posts: 77 Location: South Dakota

It's not just MEC. My PW drops light too, likely due to shot size. My current 7/8 oz target load, I'm using the 1 ounce bushing, which drops between 390 and 395 grains of #5 Lawrence lead.

Joined: 28 Mar 2008 Posts: 1460 Location: Eagle, Nebraska

correct on MEC bar, the 1 1/16 were really just coincidence, my bar dropped that, and all I did was gain a little velocity which was alright with me.

Joined: 16 Jul 2015 Posts: 2125 Location: Hudson,Wy

One benefit to 1 1/16oz. as a reduced charge when using 1 1/8 oz. data is the possibility of adding buffer.

Member Joined: 31 Aug 2005 Posts: 1257 Location: Nebraska

I think it's the 1 1/16oz bushing that drops 1oz of 5s by weight for the shells I loaded with them. If nothing else, such a bushing might help you get a good crimp in some loads that aren't quite perfect with 1oz or 1 1/8oz bushings.

Manufacturers intentionally make charge bars and bushings drop well on the light side to give safe leeway to their customers, many of which will never weigh a charge, as well as to themselves, for some legal protection.

Unless you are dropping shot charges of 7/8 oz. or less and using shot larger than 5's, the shot size does not make a significant difference in the nominal pellet count of the charge. Please note I said pellet count, and not the weight of the charge -- though I did want to. The reason? -- Density differences between softer and harder lead alloys as well as the effects of nickel or copper plating will make for significant difference in the weights of the same number of the same sizes of lead pellets. The answer? -- If you want shot charge weights to be more accurate by weight, then file or bush your charge bars or shot bushings for your specific shot. It goes without saying you'll have to be able to weigh some shot and powder charges to insure you've got what you want.

For powder charges the answer is to select the bushing that gives you the charge closest to your desires. I used to file powder bushings, but I don't anymore. MEC bushings go in approximately half grain steps -- roughly -- check your bushing/powder charts. Selecting a bushing off by few tenths of a grain is no big deal, as long as drop-to-drop consistency is within one to three tenths of a grain. Even fairly large powder drop variations do not affect crimps, but a 16th ounce of shot can have a very noticeable effect on crimps.