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MSM2019
PostPosted: Tue Mar 24, 2020 2:59 pm  Reply with quote



Joined: 04 Mar 2019
Posts: 1819
Location: Central ND

Swampy16,

There are a few things that will help out.

The first is I don't use a MEC bar because they always throw light especially with magnum shot. I use the Multiscale charge bar. I am actually dropping a full 1 oz.

I only use enough wad pressure to just bump the wad pressure indicator.

Be sure that you have the same wad that I am using. There are two different Gualandi 16 gauge wads. The easiest way to tell the difference is by the small protrusions in the overpower cup. You want the one on the right. The wad on the left will sit farther down in the powder charge especially if you use a lot of wad pressure and will create the dished crimps.




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Mark...You are entitled to your own opinion. You aren't entitled to your own facts.
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MSM2019
PostPosted: Tue Mar 24, 2020 3:28 pm  Reply with quote



Joined: 04 Mar 2019
Posts: 1819
Location: Central ND

Ballistic Products sells both 16 ga. Gualandi wads the correct one is the SG16 - the SG16S is supposed to be shorter but.......barely. The difference is in the amount of protrusions in the overpowder cup, and that does affect how nicely the crimp is formed.

You can get a good crimp using the SG16S with 1 oz. loads, but it is much easier using the SG16. Especially in Federal, Cheddite (Winchester), RIO and other hulls with similar capacity.

I am not sure which wad Precision Reloading sells....the picture looks like the SG16S.

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Swampy16
PostPosted: Wed Mar 25, 2020 9:48 am  Reply with quote



Joined: 17 Oct 2019
Posts: 453
Location: New Jersey

I may not be able to get back at it til this weekend but I’m using a 600 JR. I have a universal charge bar I may try using to make sure I’m getting a full ounce of shot. This site is a great help. Thank you all. I will update as soon as possible.
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16gaDavis
PostPosted: Thu Mar 26, 2020 6:15 am  Reply with quote



Joined: 24 Jun 2013
Posts: 2062
Location: canandaigua - western n.y. (formerly deerhunter)

you may or may not have one of those digital scales . BP has them on sale occasionally and they are SSOOOO useful . You can dial your powder and shot right on !! Thats where the light really comes on about what the bars really do .

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Swampy16
PostPosted: Thu Mar 26, 2020 2:57 pm  Reply with quote



Joined: 17 Oct 2019
Posts: 453
Location: New Jersey

I have both a digital and beam scale. I’ll try to dig into again this weekend. I’m a landscaper so things are nuts right now, even in the midsts of the virus.
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Brewster11
PostPosted: Thu Mar 26, 2020 5:02 pm  Reply with quote



Joined: 08 Feb 2009
Posts: 1301
Location: Western WA

You are using the totally wrong hull. The 1 oz load has been intended for 2 1/2" 16 ga hull since the beginning of time (technically the 1800s). Use the SG16S wad with 2 1/2" hulls and you will have the CORRECT original combination. You also need to learn how to adjust the MEC crimp starter, crimp tube, and the crimp punch simultaneously, I will allow it can be tricky.

And all you guys that use fillers, wads, cards, felt, breakfast cereal, etc.,for 1 oz in 2 3/4" hulls, come on, what's with all that?? The 16 ga is meant to be a lightweight 2 1/2" chambered gun with 1 oz of shot!! U.S. makers went with 2 3/4" back in the 1900s as a desperate crutch so 16ga shooters could shoot 1 1/4 oz (or more!) to keep up with the the 12 ga big boys. 2 3/4" hulls are so last century. Lose them!

B.
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MSM2019
PostPosted: Thu Mar 26, 2020 6:31 pm  Reply with quote



Joined: 04 Mar 2019
Posts: 1819
Location: Central ND

Brewster11,

Many companies use the 2 3/4" hull for 1 oz. in the 16.

There is plenty of data for 1 oz. loads in 2 3/4" hulls for the 16.

If you look at my posts they are proof that the component combination the OP asked about will accommodate a 1 oz. load. No special adjustments, no fillers, nothing but a good load.

I routinely load 1 oz. loads in any and all 2 3/4" hulls currently on the market.......and I am certain that there are plenty of others here that do the same.

I load these 1 oz. loads on both a Sizemaster and a 9000G16.

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Brewster11
PostPosted: Thu Mar 26, 2020 7:43 pm  Reply with quote



Joined: 08 Feb 2009
Posts: 1301
Location: Western WA

Mark,

Yes, it can be done, I've loaded probably a thousand myself...but why?
It's like fitting a size 10 foot into a size 11 shoe. Lace it down tight and you hardly know the difference, but its an inferior fit.

The OP has a problem. And his problem will go away and never come back if he uses a 2 1/2" hull.

What I've found is 2 3/4" Cheddites can work fine with 1 oz and SG16, but 2 3/4" Fiocchi hulls do NOT in my experience...the plastic is flimsier and the crimps eventually cave in. I suppose with more crimp adjustments the Fiocchi might be make to work as well.

But why bother? ALL the different Euro hulls crimp fine with the same identical crimp setting for 1 oz with the 2 1/2" hull and the SG16S, because that's exactly what it's made for.

OK, I confess that I don't like the 2 3/4" shell...to me it's like those cheap old overbored VW cylinder and piston kits sold by JC Whitney, remember those? They were kind of ridiculous unless you were building a DIY dune buggy.

Kind of the same deal here - does anybody really need to shoot 1 1/4 oz out of a 6 1/4 lb 16 ga? Because that's the only real reason to use 2 3/4" hulls.

One might say the 2 3/4" is needed for 1 oz notox loads, but then again roll crimps will handle that in a 2 1/2" hull.

Cheers
B
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megasupermagnum
PostPosted: Fri Mar 27, 2020 4:55 pm  Reply with quote



Joined: 11 Dec 2017
Posts: 77
Location: South Dakota

The only reason 2 1/2" shells exist is because of the 20-30 year transition period of mainly brass shells did not require the space. Once paper shotgun shells became widely available around the turn of the century, the world nearly immediately went to 2 3/4" shells, and has maintained superior popularity for some 120 years.
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4setters
PostPosted: Wed Apr 01, 2020 9:37 am  Reply with quote
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Joined: 19 Nov 2013
Posts: 381
Location: NW Arkansas

While my comments below are far removed from S16s original post about stack height, I would like to add the following:

The original era of 2.5 inch 16 gauge shells was long before the arrival of plastic wads on the scene. Fiber/felt wads were used to adjust stack height in these paper shells, so it was a relatively simple matter to cut the proper height of over the powder wads/fiber wads for a specific shell, or even over the shot wads for roll crimps. While 2.5 inch paper shells may have been the go to hull for 1 oz. loads originally, 1 and 1/8 oz and even 1 and 1/4 paper loads in 2.75 paper hulls soon hit the market, mainly due to the need for heavy loads for waterfowl. These shells all had fiber/felt wads of the proper height.

When plastic wads hit the market in the 60s or 70s, virtually all 16 gauge wads (Rem R16, Rem SP16, Herters, later Win WAA16) were designed at the proper stack height for either 1 oz or 1 and 1/8 oz loads in 2.75 inch hulls. Other wads have become available since then, some even designed for 3/4 oz loads, but the original offerings were for 1/1 and 1/8 oz loads and were designed with 2.75 hulls in mind.

The concept of cutting down plastic hulls to 2.5 inches and using certain wads such as the SG16S for one oz. loads is a relatively new invention, far removed from the technology of the early 1900s when paper hulls and fiber wads were standard.

The past couple of years, I have been loading a variety of old paper hulls from the 40s-60s with 1 oz loads to use in my NID 16 for bobwhites. There is a great variety of height in paper base wads in these hulls, therefore a great variety of various heights of over the powder/fiber wads needed to bring these 2 and 5/8, 2 and 9/16, 2 and 11/16 and 2 and 3/4 inch hulls to the proper crimping height. For instance, I reloaded a lot of 2 and 11/16 inch Winchester paper "brush load" hulls with extremely high paper base wads that even had a forward powder cup that required a very short OP/fiber wad height to accommodate 1 oz of shot. On the other hand, old Federal paper hulls have a very short paper base wad and require a long OP/fiber wad. (Plastic wads do not give one this flexibility!).

My thoughts about the issue of 2.5 qnd 2.75 inch 16 gauge hulls above.

Below is a pic of a box of J.C. Higgins 2.75 inch paper hulls, probably for the 50s or 60s, loaded with fiber wads (probably Federal hulls rebranded).

[url=https://flic.kr/p/2cq2yLz] [/url]jchiggins2 by Michael Widner, on Flickr

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