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df
PostPosted: Tue Sep 15, 2020 6:03 pm  Reply with quote



Joined: 01 Oct 2007
Posts: 623
Location: Minnesota

Interesting comment above re all the new rifle cartridges that have been developed in past 5-10 years, yet there is six shotgun gauges, counting the 10 and 410. And yes I know the 410 is not a gauge. Why have not more gauges been developed or the 16 get more options in guns chambered for it.
Many if not most of these new rifle cartridges are very close in performance to others that have been around for decades. Maybe if the 16ga was renamed the 16 Creedmoor. 😁
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nj gsp
PostPosted: Tue Sep 15, 2020 8:22 pm  Reply with quote



Joined: 09 Aug 2007
Posts: 152
Location: WI

The 12 and the 20 pretty much cover everything you would want to do with a shotgun. A minority (except for here on this site) understand and appreciate that the 16ga "hits like a 12 and carries like a 20".

I think it's less the availability of non-toxic options and more of a lack of 16 gauge ammo as a whole that's to blame. Go into any sporting goods store, and there are shelves of 12 gauge and 20 gauge ammo, and if you're lucky there will be a few boxes of 16 gauge.

So consider the new shotgun buyer, looking for a gun to use for upland game. Not only are the 16 gauge options extremely limited for firearms, one look at the ammo shelf shows the prospective buyer there isn't much to choose from, and it often costs more than most 12 or 20 gauge shells.


Last edited by nj gsp on Tue Sep 15, 2020 8:36 pm; edited 1 time in total
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nj gsp
PostPosted: Tue Sep 15, 2020 8:35 pm  Reply with quote



Joined: 09 Aug 2007
Posts: 152
Location: WI

Here's a screen capture from Midway USA of some of the more popular field loads from a few minutes ago. As you can see, they are all either "Out of stock, no backorder" or "Unavailable, seasonal run"

But it's bird season NOW, so when are they going to start making this stuff? What "season" are the manufacturers waiting for???

Plenty of 12 and 20 available though...

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Dave Erickson
PostPosted: Wed Sep 16, 2020 3:33 am  Reply with quote
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Location: West Coast of WI

The above post makes me feel like a genius for having a lifetime supply of 16 gauge ammo in the basement. Other times I've felt a little foolish.
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John Singer
PostPosted: Wed Sep 16, 2020 3:59 am  Reply with quote



Joined: 03 Sep 2014
Posts: 322
Location: Rochester, MN

If you look at the above posted screen shot from Midway USA, you will note that there is not a single 16 gauge target load. The decision, many years ago, to not include a 16 gauge class in clay target games negatively impacted the popularity of 16 gauge.

We can still see the effects today.

I coach in the USA High School Clay Target League. League guidelines clearly state that the participants are to use 12 or 20 gauge guns.

There are simply no dedicated target guns or ammunition available in 16 gauge.

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Dave Erickson
PostPosted: Wed Sep 16, 2020 4:30 am  Reply with quote
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I don't fret about a 16 gauge resurgence. I like them, use them, and have been proactive with the ammo and reloading supplies. End of story!
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df
PostPosted: Wed Sep 16, 2020 4:54 am  Reply with quote



Joined: 01 Oct 2007
Posts: 623
Location: Minnesota

Well stated, Dave.
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tramroad28
PostPosted: Wed Sep 16, 2020 6:33 am  Reply with quote



Joined: 20 Jul 2011
Posts: 588
Location: Ohio..where ruffed grouse were

Never understood why popularity is courted more than being snug in a comfy niche.....plus, it's been many moons since 16 gauge shotshell availability was an issue.
Reloading components less so but, really, those heavy 870s were more an issue with appeal, imo.

Were the 16 to have been a gauge in competition, say skeet, then would the 28 gauge have left and the 28 become the cry for clays?

In my time in registered skeet, we shot two gauges on saturday and two on sunday....adding a 5th competition unit of it's own would not have been very practical from a scheduling angle.

I'm glad the 16 gauge never made it in Skeet.....unanswered prayers, perhaps.
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fin2feather
PostPosted: Wed Sep 16, 2020 6:46 am  Reply with quote
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From the curmudgeon's perspective: I've never understood this obsession with strengthening or "bringing back" the 16 gauge. Like Dave says: I like them, I use them, but I couldn't care less whether anyone else shoots a 16ga or not. Plenty of nice used ones out there, plus I'm not in the market for any new guns anyway, so I really don't care whether manufacturers produce any new ones or not. Got enough ammo to last the rest of my days so that's not a problem either. For targets I shoot my 12's - "when in Rome..." When I'm gone my 16's can be someone's shooters or be somebody's wall hangers - I really don't care. Very Happy

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Pine Creek/Dave
PostPosted: Wed Sep 16, 2020 7:55 am  Reply with quote



Joined: 17 Mar 2017
Posts: 1622
Location: Endless Mountains of Pa

Gentlemen,

I have only purchased three 16 gauge guns in my life time, a skeet model M21, a L.C. Smith 16 gauge Hammer Gun and most recently a Antique Crescent 16 gauge Hammer Gun. I traded the M21 gun long ago on a L.C. Smith 20 gauge 00 because the M21 was way to heavy to carry while Grouse hunting. I have a few 16 gauge guns that were passed down thru the family to me, all are great Grouse guns, I hunt with them, seldom shoot clay with them. Because these L.C. Smith guns are so nice, I really do not want a modern 16 gauge gun, although the AYA #2 16 would be worth owning, the David McKay Brown also. If I was going to purchase another 16 gauge gun it would be a 1910 or before J. Purdey self opener with a Hodges made Breech, choked IC & M.

Today I have no problem purchasing good 16 gauge shells, I use a lot of RST & Poly SpredR's mailed right to my log cabin door. I no longer have to roll my own, which I viewed as a big waste of my dog training time.

I really could care less what gauge of gun another man uses, however over a life time of Grouse hunting I have come to realize most 16 gauge owners know a little about Grouse hunting and are usually safety conscious hunters. So I do look to see what SXS double gun another man is carrying in the Grouse woods.

Pine Creek/Dave
L.C. Smith Man

My newly acquired Antique 16 gauge Crescent Hammer Gun



My 16 Gauge L.C. Smith Hammer Gun, gifted to another avid Grouse Hunter.


Last edited by Pine Creek/Dave on Wed Sep 16, 2020 11:03 am; edited 5 times in total

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ROMAC
PostPosted: Wed Sep 16, 2020 8:40 am  Reply with quote



Joined: 07 Mar 2010
Posts: 355
Location: South Eastern PA

I'm just glad I bought a lifetime supply of nearly 20 cases of Herter's before they shot up in price then discontinued them. As long as I don't plan on using them all up on the sporting clays course near me I should never need to buy another box again.
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4setters
PostPosted: Wed Sep 16, 2020 12:29 pm  Reply with quote
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There are tons of variables for each of us--clays? hunting only? type of hunting? on and on. At my stage in life, I have pretty much given up turkeys and ducks, don't do clays hardly ever, and pretty much shoot only upland birds. The 16 gauge has always filled the role for those species of upland game that I shoot to a T. Never felt over- or under gunned. I only used 20s for hunting upland game a few years, and felt they were not as good as 16s on birds, and I only used 12s on turkeys and open water large ducks (16s were fine in flooded timber, even with the puny steel loads). I haven't shot any of my 12s in years, and there are no 20s or 28s in the safe.

Back in the 60s, the cry was, "Get rid of those 16s, you won't be able to get ammo for them soon." Well, I have always kept a good stock of 16 gauge shells ahead, including probably a thousand Win CF factory loads. And a reloader set up. As long as no one steals the flat of various steel/lead loads out of the floorboard of my truck that stays in there all fall/winter, I'm in business.

If one only buys a box of shells on the way to the field or the range, then, he probably needs to stick to a 12. In my neck of the woods, even 20s may take a trip to more than one store and 28s, forget it in most cases.

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1952 Ithaca M37 Mod
1955 Browning Auto-5 Mod
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Brewster11
PostPosted: Wed Sep 16, 2020 9:09 pm  Reply with quote



Joined: 08 Feb 2009
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Location: Western WA

Quote:
If one only buys a box of shells on the way to the field or the range, then, he probably needs to stick to a 12.

Our range staff saw fit to lay up a stock of 16 ga ammo, bless their thoughtful souls. Itís 2 3/4Ē Rio #8 for $8.53, good stuff which suits me just fine. It did take some digging in the supply shed to find it the other day, but there it was in the back corner, 8 or 10 flats of it. I purchased a few boxes and left the rest for next time.

Evidently a couple other members bring in their 16 ga on occasions. Mine generate considerable curiosity, as well as kind words of encouragement if not outright sympathy. One member once kindly gave me a box of 16ga ammo.

One of my 16 ga guns has quite a reputation there... the little 2 1/2Ē M12. It keeps pace with our best shooters, especially with handicap of all things. No idea why it performs so well, I canít come close with any of my other 16 ga, or my 12s or 20s for that matter. They ask about it if I donít have it with me. Guess itís just one of those things.

B.
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UncleDanFan
PostPosted: Tue Sep 22, 2020 6:52 am  Reply with quote
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Brewster11 wrote:
Quote:
If one only buys a box of shells on the way to the field or the range, then, he probably needs to stick to a 12.

Our range staff saw fit to lay up a stock of 16 ga ammo, bless their thoughtful souls. Itís 2 3/4Ē Rio #8 for $8.53, good stuff which suits me just fine. It did take some digging in the supply shed to find it the other day, but there it was in the back corner, 8 or 10 flats of it. I purchased a few boxes and left the rest for next time.

Evidently a couple other members bring in their 16 ga on occasions. Mine generate considerable curiosity, as well as kind words of encouragement if not outright sympathy. One member once kindly gave me a box of 16ga ammo.

One of my 16 ga guns has quite a reputation there... the little 2 1/2Ē M12. It keeps pace with our best shooters, especially with handicap of all things. No idea why it performs so well, I canít come close with any of my other 16 ga, or my 12s or 20s for that matter. They ask about it if I donít have it with me. Guess itís just one of those things.

B.


I had a Syracuse Arms 16 that was like that on trap. I couldn't miss with it. I have no idea why. Seems like all I had to do was point in the general direction of the clay and it would break. I'm not a trap shooter though, so I fixed it up and gave it to my brother in law, but he doesn't use it. Sigh.

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FallCreekFan
PostPosted: Mon Sep 28, 2020 8:14 am  Reply with quote



Joined: 30 Sep 2019
Posts: 8
Location: Colorado

I can go years between firing a factory load. I have a dedicated press for my 2 1/2Ē and another for my 2 3/4Ē hulls.
But back to commercial availability. Yesterday I was in the Bass Pro Mother Ship in Springfield MO. The sum total of 16ga offerings?
One box of 6ís.
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