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Aurelio Corso
PostPosted: Mon Mar 22, 2021 8:10 am  Reply with quote



Joined: 08 May 2018
Posts: 196

A friend of mine brought over his dog a few pen raised pheasants shot one dead at 30 yards crippled one well over 50 which the dog got no problem.I was using a old hammer 16 Sauer full and full and being 7/8 ounce at 1125 FPS have any of you guys used these on wild birds with good results ?
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MSM2019
PostPosted: Mon Mar 22, 2021 8:49 am  Reply with quote



Joined: 04 Mar 2019
Posts: 1819
Location: Central ND

I think what you saw at 50 yards tells you the story. Wild birds are faster, tougher and a bit more of a challenge when crippled but not killed than pen raised. I am NOT saying you can't kill wild birds with 7/8 oz. at 1125 FPS, but I can think of better choices.

What about 1 oz. of #6 at 1,200 FPS? More pellet count and more pellet energy, but keeping the recoil down for the older shotgun.

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3birddogs
PostPosted: Mon Mar 22, 2021 9:12 am  Reply with quote



Joined: 07 Sep 2011
Posts: 567
Location: wheeling, wv

I use 7/8 oz 6's at around 1150 all the time for released birds, and have also used it on birds in Kansas. I ususally do go up to 1 oz on wild pheasants. There are plenty of birds crippled with the high speed loads as well. If we put the pattern where it is supposed to be( easier said than done), your load will kill.

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WyoChukar
PostPosted: Mon Mar 22, 2021 9:14 am  Reply with quote



Joined: 16 Jul 2015
Posts: 2124
Location: Hudson,Wy

I agree that 1 oz. @1200 is a much better choice. I shot plenty of wild roosters with that load, choosing #6 for the skeet barrel and #5 for the modified in my 2 1/2" gun. I have also used 1 oz. of #5 @ 1200 to very good effect on pheasants out to 50 yards in a tight choked Fox 16.

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Aurelio Corso
PostPosted: Mon Mar 22, 2021 9:21 am  Reply with quote



Joined: 08 May 2018
Posts: 196

I am sure the cripple was a bad shot on my part but will look into some faster and more pellets when RST goes back on line.
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MSM2019
PostPosted: Mon Mar 22, 2021 10:59 am  Reply with quote



Joined: 04 Mar 2019
Posts: 1819
Location: Central ND

Let me explain a bit....

7/8 oz. of #5's means a pellet count of 150. Unless you know how your shotgun patterns, there isn't much wiggle room. The probability that you fringe hit that pheasant isn't good. The probability that there wasn't enough pattern density to kill the pheasant is more likely. In other words your shooting was probably fine the load was a bit anemic considering what you asked of it. You are basically asking a 28 ga. to kill 50 yard pheasants........not that it can't be done but....

If you pattern enough there is a big difference between what the 15" to 18" effective pattern looks like at 30 yards and what it looks like at 50 yards. It is not a linear degradation. Good 50 yard patterns are very hard to come by.

That's why I believe 1 oz. @ 1200 FPS is a better choice. If you look at pellet energy @ 50 yards #5's have 2.18 ft lbs of energy #6's at the same yardage have 1.53 ft lbs. Based on 4% antimony the #5's have approximately 171 pellets while an ounce the #6's have approximately 226. Either pellet size will do the job @ 50 yards, if you consider a minimum pellet energy of 1.0 ft lb to be bare minimum. The 5's have the edge in energy, the 6's pellet count.....your choice.

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MSM2019
PostPosted: Mon Mar 22, 2021 11:43 am  Reply with quote



Joined: 04 Mar 2019
Posts: 1819
Location: Central ND

BTW, I ran the old Ed Lowry program for 150 pellet hits (7/8 oz.) with a 70% pattern on a 14 sq in area. It shows if you hit the bird dead center you have a possibility of 3.9 hits.

For a 1 oz. load of 5's 4.15 hits

For a 1 oz. load of 6's 5.3 hits

If you are 9" away from the center of the pattern

For a 1 oz. load of 5's 2.70 hits

For a 1 oz. load of 6's 3.47 hits

For a 7/8 oz. load of 5's 2.29 hits

Remember this is all pure statics, but they give you a good idea of what is going to happen.

70% pattern @ 50 yards is asking a lot.

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Pine Creek/Dave
PostPosted: Mon Mar 22, 2021 11:51 am  Reply with quote



Joined: 17 Mar 2017
Posts: 2787
Location: Endless Mountains of Pa

Gentlemen,

As usual WyoChukar is right on the money with his advise, the RST & Poly 1 oz 1200 FPS shells work real well in our Classic American double guns, and down birds with authority. In fact I use them in my L.C. Smith double guns most all the time, even for shooting Grouse and Woodcock, not just Pheasants.

Use the 1 oz shells they preform much better than the 7/8 oz shells for shooting flying.

all the best,

Pine Creek/Dave
L.C. Smith Man


An old 12 gauge #5 L.C. Smith double gun with modern 1 oz RST traditional shells, downs Pheasants with absolute authority.


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tramroad28
PostPosted: Mon Mar 22, 2021 12:30 pm  Reply with quote



Joined: 20 Jul 2011
Posts: 625
Location: Ohio..where ruffed grouse were

50 yards, actual or simply appearing as "out there", is more a reason for recovery issues of a rooster pheasant than is any pellet or load chosen.

Might be wise to eat a larger breakfast and look for the next bird....birddogs won't mind a bit.
Proving them, once again, to be wiser than us.
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Pine Creek/Dave
PostPosted: Mon Mar 22, 2021 12:51 pm  Reply with quote



Joined: 17 Mar 2017
Posts: 2787
Location: Endless Mountains of Pa

tramroad28,

I take the 50 yard shot they talk about with a grain of salt, when shooting on a walk up Pheasant hunt, at 50 yards out, it is not recommended even with 1 1/8 oz shells. When talking reality 40 yards and in, to gun the Pheasant, even with a serious gun dog. We are not shooting Ducks flying in toward us, most Pheasant shots are going away or crossers. Most experienced upland hunters do not shoot Pheasant at 50 yards out.

all the best,

Pine Creek/Dave
L.C. Smith Man

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tramroad28
PostPosted: Mon Mar 22, 2021 1:05 pm  Reply with quote



Joined: 20 Jul 2011
Posts: 625
Location: Ohio..where ruffed grouse were

Many posts should indeed be taken with a grain of salt....

.....if read by a person new to both message boards and pheasants or, woodcock for that matter, were to believe that pellet or load or choke or whatever makes "out there" doable then, we all ultimately lose.
Doable...can be as ill-advised an enabler as the word legal.
jmho

Personally, I like 1 1/8-5s in a 16 for roosters.
There is never shame to be found in 1/8 oz....if a gun requires less then all the more reason to avoid "out there" and enjoy the gun for what it gives and not for what it can be made to do.
jmho 2
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Pine Creek/Dave
PostPosted: Mon Mar 22, 2021 1:22 pm  Reply with quote



Joined: 17 Mar 2017
Posts: 2787
Location: Endless Mountains of Pa

tramroad28,

What you say is true, I do use the 1 1/8 0z shells in my 2nd barrel for both Grouse and Pheasant hunting, depending on the habitat we are hunting in. Most times however the birds are killed inside 40 yards with the 1 oz shot from the 1st barrel.

If you have a good dog there is absolutely no need for taking 50 yard shots while upland Pheasant hunting. However the 1 1/8 oz shells are great for shooting thru the edges of Hemlock Trees and thru big grape vines when hunting Grouse and Woodcock. 1 oz of #8's in the 1st barrel , 1 1/8 oz of #6's or #5's in the 2nd barrel, with instant selection of both shells and choke, on a DT double gun.

There are many sportsman who have never mastered the discipline and the advantages of a fine DT double gun. The longer a sportsman bird hunts the more he or she actually learns about the upland shooting life. Having a good mentor is a big advantage to the sportsman learning to upland hunt, especially Grouse and woodcock hunt.

all the best,

Pine Creek/Dave
L.C. Smith Man

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MSM2019
PostPosted: Mon Mar 22, 2021 5:16 pm  Reply with quote



Joined: 04 Mar 2019
Posts: 1819
Location: Central ND

Tramroad 28 and Pine Creek Dave,

Your ideas of not taking a 50 yard shot.......are incorrect, especially a crossing shot where the birds head/neck is visible.

If you can hit an on edge standard clay target at 50 yards, there is no reason why you can't cleanly kill a game bird at 50 yards.

I am not saying that 50 yard shots are the norm, but they do present themselves at times.

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tramroad28
PostPosted: Mon Mar 22, 2021 5:43 pm  Reply with quote



Joined: 20 Jul 2011
Posts: 625
Location: Ohio..where ruffed grouse were

MSM2019 wrote:
Tramroad 28 and Pine Creek Dave,

Your ideas of not taking a 50 yard shot.......are incorrect, especially a crossing shot where the birds head neck is visible.

If you can hit an on edge standard clay target at 50 yards, there is no reason why you can't cleanly kill a game bird at 50 yards.


Breaking a clay at 50, 50 plus as with your friend or even at a Digweed 100 certainly happens....I am afraid tho that I am one fella who does not equate a live game bird with a clay when taking a long poke....real world and slipping odds enter, for me.
As does how badly I really need to kill a bird.
Naturally, we all have taken long shots and been rewarded, taken ill-advised shots and been surprised...for me, I hope I learn....even from blind luck.

Good dogs are just that but are never a guarantee of 50 or over wounded roosters either.
Nice when it happens but....well, nice when it happens.

I understand second or third shots at a dinged bird, I understand a misjudgment of range, I understand keenness at work....I do not understand reckoning the advice of shooting any load at 50 yard or more rooster pheasants.

*Speaking only for myself
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double vision
PostPosted: Mon Mar 22, 2021 5:46 pm  Reply with quote
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Here's the thing, Mark. With the "50 yard clay" one is most likely using a target gun, not a light field gun. Also 7 1/2's or 8's perhaps? You're in comfortable clothes. Your feet are set to be in the middle of your swing at the break point. You know exactly where the trap is, and you yourself called "pull!" You've seen a "show target" or perhaps your squamates shooting it. You know where it comes into best vision, your hold spot, the sweet spot, your break spot. Everyone gets quiet so you can concentrate. And still, there a real good chance of missing the clay. Not sure if it's a good comparison.
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