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<  16ga. General Discussion  ~  L.C. Smith/Hunter Arms 00 Grade side Lock guns for $37.00
Pine Creek/Dave
PostPosted: Wed Apr 21, 2021 2:11 pm  Reply with quote



Joined: 17 Mar 2017
Posts: 2786
Location: Endless Mountains of Pa

Gentlemen,

Back in 1898 L.C. Smith/Hunter Arms introduced its 00 Grade side lock SXS hammerless double gun costing $37.00. The off the shelf guns came with English Walnut stocks, DT and extractors, choked M/F. Advertised ARMOR (Armour) barrels lengths 26, 28, 30, and 32" The 00 Grade guns could be special ordered with all the L.C. Smith options. Most of the guns produced were 12 gauge guns (48,376) 16 gauge guns totaled 4,726, 20 gauge guns accounted for 3,382, 10 gauge production was a total of 611. No 8 gauge guns were produced as far as is known. One 28 gauge gun on a 20 gauge frame was made (SN 100) finished in 1911, with auto-ejectors.

In 1898 $37.00 was a lot of money for an entry level side lock SXS double gun, a little over a months pay for the average man.
However if this 00 Grade side lock gun was produced today by CSMC, it would cost over $5,000. Remember this was an L.C. Smith entry level side lock double gun. Today it would be even more expensive comparing it to the 1898 cost and inflation.

The great thing about these very high quality SXS double guns is that many were produced and they are still available today, because of the quality that was built into the gun. Today you can purchase on GI an original 12 gauge 00 Grade L.C. Smith for just under $1,000, a 16 gauge will usually run you about $1,200-$2,500 and the 20 gauge from around $2,000 - $3,800. Prices do vary depending on the condition of the gun. The Special Order 00 Grade guns can be a lot more expensive, some of these guns are incredible, with Kraus Engraving, French Walnut stocks and more than one barrel.

If you happen to be looking for a SXS side lock entry level double gun, they are still around, and some at very reasonable prices.

all the best,

Pine Creek/Dave
L.C. Smith Man

A one of a kind Special Order side lock SXS, 16 gauge L.C. Smith 00 Grade 2 barrel set, with Kraus #1 Gun Engraving, not for sale at any price.




20 Gauge L.C. Smith 00 Grade over top of the 16 gauge Westley Richards Drop Lock, both incredible Grouse guns.


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revdocdrew
PostPosted: Thu Apr 22, 2021 6:03 am  Reply with quote
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Dave's production numbers come from Dr Jim's "L.C. Smith Production Records" and are a much more accurate revision of Brophy's

On introduction the No. 00 was listed at $37 and $47 with AE; HOT $25 extra.
BUT the retail price was much lower.

Interestingly the 1900 Sears catalog did not list any prices for Smith or Parker guns, asking buyers to write for a special price.

1902 $27.85 ($25 in 1900 would be about $800 today)

[url=https://drewhause.smugmug.com/LC-Smith/Pre-1913/i-f4RkcGf/A] [/url]

1908 $25

[url=https://drewhause.smugmug.com/LC-Smith/Pre-1913/i-j6JND56/A] [/url]

1912 $25

[url=https://drewhause.smugmug.com/LC-Smith/Pre-1913/i-fmt5RpM/A] [/url]

On introduction in 1913 the Field was also sold for $25.

In today's market it would have to be a very high condition 12g No. 00 to go for $1000. (Short chamber) 16 and 20s in good condition have certainly retained their value however.

BTW: Dave's "Streamline BTFE" was not available on Smith guns until 1929 after introduction of the "Skeet and Upland Special" in 1928

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Drew Hause
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Researcher
PostPosted: Thu Apr 22, 2021 7:17 am  Reply with quote



Joined: 13 Jun 2009
Posts: 695
Location: WA/AK

$25 was the net selling price point for entry-level guns from the major makers -- Durston Special Lefever Arms, 00/Field Grade L.C. Smith, K-Grade Remington, Fox Sterlingworth. For some reason our manufacturers put high List Prices in their catalogs but the guns actually had much lower net selling prices. Parker Bros. tried for it with the first flyer for their Trojan Grade at $25.50 in 1912, but almost immediately it went up to $27.50. By 1916, inflation associated with The Great War drove prices up fast and by 1919 the price of a Sterlingworth was up to $55 as was the Trojan Grade Parker Bros.

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revdocdrew
PostPosted: Thu Apr 22, 2021 7:52 am  Reply with quote
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Location: Glendale, AZ

What Researcher said.
A price comparison summary is here
https://docs.google.com/document/pub?id=1OTND2bQH0vhlbCf7c2sN8H1vzmT7xagUSXhewGB03SE

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Pine Creek/Dave
PostPosted: Thu Apr 22, 2021 8:06 am  Reply with quote



Joined: 17 Mar 2017
Posts: 2786
Location: Endless Mountains of Pa

Gentlemen,

No doubt there were sale prices on the guns all over the USA, my info came directly form the Production Records book by James Stubbendieck, as far as introductory cost.

The thread was started to stir interest in the fine L.C. Smith 00 Grade guns. Still some of the finest double guns ever made for the American general public at a reasonable cost. The guns are still available for purchase today, some in incredible condition, at over 100 years old. Producing a SXS, side Lock double gun with L.C. Smith quality, would cost a small fortune today, purchase the originals.

With the modern guns and their medium poor QC, heavy trigger pull and doubling ect, it's nice to know great Classic American double guns are still available to the beginner, who wants to purchase a fine American made high quality double gun.

I recommend the L.C. Smith 00 Grade guns to my clients all the time, many now own and use them in the Grouse woods, especially the 16 and the 20 gauge guns.

all the best,

Pine Creek/Dave,
L.C. Smith Man


Last edited by Pine Creek/Dave on Thu Apr 22, 2021 3:35 pm; edited 1 time in total

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4setters
PostPosted: Thu Apr 22, 2021 2:39 pm  Reply with quote
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Dave or others,

I'm curious is you or others have a "patent globe sight" for the Elsie as shown in the right column of the first advertisement? I don't believe I've ever seen one, just wondering if they are out there in any quantity? Was this a short-lived item?

If common, I probably should get one--in fine advertisement style, they are stated to double one's take of game . . . . . Watch out for going over the limit!

Shocked

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Pine Creek/Dave
PostPosted: Thu Apr 22, 2021 3:24 pm  Reply with quote



Joined: 17 Mar 2017
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Location: Endless Mountains of Pa

4setters,

I have only seen one of those Globe sights once in my life. I do not know where you can get one. I have no idea how many of them were actually made. Some men used them for hunting Turkey, provided by Sears if I remember correctly.

good luck with your search,

all the best,

Pine Creek/Dave
L.C. Smith Man

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WyoChukar
PostPosted: Thu Apr 22, 2021 8:44 pm  Reply with quote



Joined: 16 Jul 2015
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I liked my L.C. Smith 00 16 ga. It balanced, pointed, and handled livelier than the post 13 16 ga. and was lighter too. I would still have it but a friend in Texas took to liking it so I sold it to him for what I had in it, no charge for the choke work (skeet 1 & skeet 2). He got quite a bargain, that gun had grade 3 wood. It treated me well and this past season it treated him well when he hunted quail.

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Pine Creek/Dave
PostPosted: Fri Apr 23, 2021 12:03 am  Reply with quote



Joined: 17 Mar 2017
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Location: Endless Mountains of Pa

WyoChukar,

Garhart I know what you mean about a gun treating you well. A while back I gifted my 1913 L.C. Smith 16 gauge Hammer Gun to another Grouse hunter for Christmas. I believe the gun is treating him well in the Grouse woods also. Like you I probably should have hung on to that particular gun, opened the chokes to IC & M. One great Grouse and Woodcock gun for sure, I do miss it big time.


all the best,

Pine Creek/Dave
L.C. Smith Man

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bruski
PostPosted: Fri Apr 23, 2021 2:02 am  Reply with quote



Joined: 21 Sep 2019
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More than happy to send you $37 and my address.
How much for shipping?

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WyoChukar
PostPosted: Fri Apr 23, 2021 10:23 pm  Reply with quote



Joined: 16 Jul 2015
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I checked into that, the shipping was pretty steep. It seems that the DeLorean needs a new flux capacitor and those don't come cheap.

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wj jeffery 16
PostPosted: Sat Apr 24, 2021 9:18 am  Reply with quote
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Wyo I hope that DeLorean isn't an other of your shiny projects, it would definitely be shiny enough to come under that category, but if you do get around to getting her sorted program her back to 25th Sept 1897 London where you could pick up my Jeffery 16ga for the pricely sum of 7 pounds and 10 shillings sterling , probably a lot of money back then right enough,
Hope you guys are keeping well , got out for a bit of target Shooting with the rimfires today its was good fun in the sunshine for once , my son brought along a shot gun and we downed a crow each inbetween times , always good to get a bit of Shooting in the off season .
All the best WJ.
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Pine Creek/Dave
PostPosted: Sat Apr 24, 2021 11:56 am  Reply with quote



Joined: 17 Mar 2017
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Location: Endless Mountains of Pa

WJ,

Great to hear from you and glad you got out in the sun shine with the guns.
Hope all is well in your part of the world!

all the best,

Pine Creek/Dave
L.C. Smith Man

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BarkeyVA
PostPosted: Fri Apr 30, 2021 11:35 am  Reply with quote
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Do the higher prices for Damascus barrels reflect a belief that they were superior to “armor steel” or that they were more difficult to manufacture?

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revdocdrew
PostPosted: Fri Apr 30, 2021 12:33 pm  Reply with quote
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Scroll down about 1/2 way here
https://docs.google.com/document/d/1YJxP1k3PzmtmrG1HEGxd8X6g0-1GL0KNY8WMIMkdKr0/edit

Pattern welded "rough forged tubes" were significantly more expensive related to the hand work.

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