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< 16ga. Ammunition & Reloading ~ New Ched 209 primers |
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Posted:
Wed Apr 21, 2021 1:56 pm
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Joined: 30 Sep 2019
Posts: 145
Location: Colorado
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Background: last fall I was able to find and purchase 2 boxes of Ched 209 primers at my regular reloading supply store. When the clerk brought them to the counter, instead of the yellow boxes that I'm used to, these were in an unfamiliar blue and pink box. I questioned him and he assured me that they were the same primers just new packaging.
I bought them and when my supply of the old yellow box primers ran out I starting using the new ones. Everything seemed fine (and may still be) but...not long after two of my regular rotation SxS's began experiencing pierced primers and/or hung firing pins.
This may just be a coincidence but before I start looking internally for the source of the problem, I want to remove the new primers as suspects since they are the only variable that changed.
Does anyone know if these new Ched 209's are different?
If so, how?
Thanks. |
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Posted:
Wed Apr 21, 2021 2:36 pm
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Member
Joined: 08 Nov 2005
Posts: 3440
Location: Illinois
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Loaded the "new " Cheds w/no problems. |
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Posted:
Wed Apr 21, 2021 4:59 pm
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Joined: 09 Mar 2016
Posts: 757
Location: Mn.
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Same exact primer different packaging, new and improved box according to someone in marketing If you look at the back of the "old" yellow boxed ones each sleeve will say CX2000 on it also
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Posted:
Wed Apr 21, 2021 7:03 pm
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Joined: 04 Mar 2019
Posts: 1852
Location: Central ND
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Cheddite primers are known to pierce.
If you really look under magnification you can see the fine cracks.
They don't all pierce but enough so that you could ruin firing pins. Some guns are fine, and some aren't.
I have had them pierce in my Hunter Special, Citori, 1100 and a Benelli SS. |
_________________ Mark...You are entitled to your own opinion. You aren't entitled to your own facts. |
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Posted:
Wed Apr 21, 2021 8:34 pm
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Joined: 12 Feb 2018
Posts: 258
Location: West-central Missouri
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What hulls are you using when you have primer fails? |
_________________ An ounce of fives, the smell of nitro in paper hulls, wet gundog, and Hoppe's #9... |
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Posted:
Thu Apr 22, 2021 5:57 am
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Joined: 30 Sep 2019
Posts: 145
Location: Colorado
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Posted:
Thu Apr 22, 2021 6:03 am
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Member
Joined: 30 Nov 2011
Posts: 1701
Location: Minnesota
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LaughingMAO I posted the same question 1 yr ago. As you can see I got a variety of answers. I spent a lot of time surfing around,calling different companies etc. Never had anyone show the back of a package like Cold Iron did here showing a yellow box saying cx2000. But the question remains-why would they bother with 2 types of packaging for the same product?
http://www.16ga.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=22885&highlight=2000 |
_________________ Great dog, Great friends,Great guns |
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Posted:
Thu Apr 22, 2021 6:30 am
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Joined: 04 Mar 2019
Posts: 1852
Location: Central ND
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Cheddite hulls. New primed. The load was 1 oz, 20 grains of Universal and a Gualandi SG16 wad. Nothing hot and a very common load.
After that bad experience, not willing to try Cheddite primers again. I was just glad that I only loaded 100 rounds. I deprimed the other 400 hulls and used a Winchester 209.....no issues. |
_________________ Mark...You are entitled to your own opinion. You aren't entitled to your own facts. |
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Posted:
Thu Apr 22, 2021 6:36 am
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Joined: 04 Mar 2019
Posts: 1852
Location: Central ND
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Posted:
Thu Apr 22, 2021 8:18 am
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Joined: 30 Sep 2019
Posts: 145
Location: Colorado
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Cold Iron, thanks for the picture. I don’t have any of the yellow boxes left to check but will just assume that all the ones I’ve used over the years have been CX2000’s. Frankly, I never noticed.
Savage, I appreciate your looking up the ‘20 thread and re-posting it. My first thought was, “How’d I miss that?” But after reading the whole thread I realized that I had read it. So the question now has to be, “How’d I forget that?” I could pick from a list of excuses but will just say, “Whatever you do, don’t get old.”
Mark, my favorite load is a Hodgdon one: 15.7 gr of International in a Ched, ahead of a Ched 209 & DR16 w/ 3/4 oz of shot. 6200 & 1150. Pretty mild. I’ve probably shot 2000 of these over the past 3-4 years. Very rare to have a pierced primer across a variety of guns and no dragging firing pins that I remember.
The majority of my doubles are 100+ years and they all get regular “exercise” in rotation. When the first gun began experiencing problems, I took it to my ‘smith for disassembly and cleaning/lube. He said it looked to have never been opened and was in remarkable shape. Regardless, he cleaned and lubed everything and we both assumed the problem was solved. On the first pair it pierced one primer and both firing pins hung. It’s back at his shop.
While it was originally in, though, I was shooting another younger gun (80 years old) and it began to do the exact same thing. That’s when we both started saying, “What changed?” The only new variable was the new batch of primers. But, as I said at the beginning, it may just be coincidence.
From last year’s thread on this topic, I’m assuming that the CX1000’s are only available in factory Cheddite loads. I certainly have never seen them available.
So I guess at this point, I’m high centered. |
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Posted:
Thu Apr 22, 2021 9:41 am
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Joined: 04 Mar 2019
Posts: 1852
Location: Central ND
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From the SGW forum, piercing Cheddite primers isn't the fault of the gun. It is a problem across the board. Perazzi, Krieghoff, Blaser, Browing, Beretta, you name it and it always gets fixed as soon as someone changes from Cheddite to another brand of primer.
The only gun I have that doesn't seem to pierce Cheddite primers is a 12 ga. Beretta Onyx. |
_________________ Mark...You are entitled to your own opinion. You aren't entitled to your own facts. |
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Posted:
Thu Apr 22, 2021 12:43 pm
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Joined: 09 Mar 2016
Posts: 757
Location: Mn.
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IthacaFan they really aren't that new they have been around 4 or 5 years now. Doing a search on Trapshooters.com using google with cheddite primers new vs. old
cheddite primers new vs. old site:trapshooters.com
gives 857 hits. It threw a lot of people for a loop with the new packaging.
Cheddite is the largest manufacture of shells in Europe and also made the 16 ga. Herters that many of us miss for $5 a box.
European primers are made of harder steel than American primers. I have no problem with them in any of my guns. Ithaca 37's (LOTS of them), Beretta 68X, F.A.I.R. (O\U and S\S), B. Rizzini, Sweet 16, Dickinson's, Benelli UL, or Benelli Cordoba which is the non-pimped version of the SuperSport.
Doing a google search on trapshooters using google with cheddite primers piercing
cheddite primers piercing site:trapshooters.com
gives 249 hits. Obviously there was more concern over the change in the color of the boxes than primers piercing over the years.
A common theme is Krieghoff and Kolar pierce Cheddites due to the shape and length of the firing pins. Occasionally an older Perazzi for the same reason. The bottom barrel of Citori's also especially when Browning changed the length and head shape of the bottom firing pin a few years back to try and fix the infamous Citori FTF issue. Those that use the J&P replacement pins also pierce as the pins are longer.
In your case IthacaFan my guess is that your guns were piercing the primers previously but just a tiny bit so that you did not notice. Once gas erosion occurs it snowballs fast and will exacerbate which is where you are at now. What people have found is that when they stone the head of the firing pins to remove pitting and flatten it down the problem goes away. Of course need to leave a radius on the edges of the head. And if it is flattened too much the smith will have to deepen the shoulder of the pin of course.
Good luck as for most people Cheddite's are the only option today. Powder Valley had some W209 last night at $50 a thousand which is likely the new price for W209 with the last 2 price increases Winchester has had. In as many months. This time I will likely stay with Cheddite's. The 200 primer trays in my MEC's like them a lot better than W209's anyhow.
Savage16 wrote: |
LaughingMAO I posted the same question 1 yr ago. As you can see I got a variety of answers. I spent a lot of time surfing around,calling different companies etc. Never had anyone show the back of a package like Cold Iron did here showing a yellow box saying cx2000. But the question remains-why would they bother with 2 types of packaging for the same product?
http://www.16ga.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=22885&highlight=2000
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Don't look now but the forecast for Le Sueur on Sunday morning is snow and rain. Don't forgot to bring my sleeve of 5K Cheddite's! |
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Posted:
Thu Apr 22, 2021 6:47 pm
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Joined: 12 Feb 2018
Posts: 258
Location: West-central Missouri
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Cheddite website says the CX2000 are a high power primers for 12ga lead. The CX1000 are medium power for magnum loads & 16ga through 28ga. Never noticed that tidbit of detail until this discussion came up.
Is it possible the pink box was a promotional pack for an event - like breast cancer fundraiser, limited run? |
_________________ An ounce of fives, the smell of nitro in paper hulls, wet gundog, and Hoppe's #9... |
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Posted:
Thu Apr 22, 2021 9:09 pm
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Joined: 16 Jul 2015
Posts: 2127
Location: Hudson,Wy
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Something French cracking under pressure? Say it isn't so... |
_________________ Only catch snowflakes on your tongue AFTER the birds fly south for the winter... |
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Posted:
Thu Apr 22, 2021 9:14 pm
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Member
Joined: 16 Dec 2007
Posts: 592
Location: Minnesota
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Got the new designed box with the most recent purchase and confused I was until I compared information from an old yellow box. Same primers. |
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