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Pine Creek/Dave
PostPosted: Sun Aug 22, 2021 1:23 pm  Reply with quote



Joined: 17 Mar 2017
Posts: 2786
Location: Endless Mountains of Pa

Gentlemen,

My Grandfather lived here in Pa when Grouse hunting was really King, as a boy in the early 50's while he was teaching me how to Grouse hunt, he would tell me about the incredible Grouse population our state once had. Can you imagine having a 10 bird limit per day and having the incredible Grouse population to accommodate this massive limit, even with market hunters. As we sat on a big log in the Pa mountains I learned a lot of Grouse history from a very serious Grouse hunter. I though we had a great day with both of us taking 2 Grouse each. My Grandfather just smiled and said that Grouse hunting as he knew it, was pretty much over, and that a two Grouse limit per day would be the standard here in Pa, for the foreseeable future.

The forest had changed in most places because the massive logging that happened in his era was slowly coming to an end. Management to have all different stages of tree growth was over, except on private property. The days of seeing 20 to 30 birds coming off the Ground in front of a good Grouse dog, would soon be only a memory.

I was lucky to Grouse hunt here in Potter County, Pa and fortunate enough to show my good friends Ken Graft and Gunny Bowman what my Grandfather once experienced on an every day hunt. Seldom does this happen even here in Potter County any more, as Ken Graft says once a sportsman actually sees it happen, he wants to see it again and again.

In my life time I have been fortunate to see this event happen 4 different times, in 4 different places. One of those times was with my Grandfather in the late 50's, a memory I see in my dreams, now as an old Grouse hunter more and more.

Few sportsman ever get to see it, even fewer get to take a Grouse as it happens, my buddy Ken Graft has a real big Grouse mounted from his experience, Gunny Bowman ate his bird. I hope to live to see it happen at least one more time, before I join my Grandfather in God' never ending forest.

all the best,

Pine Creek/Dave
L.C. Smith Man

Pine Creek Penny & one of her many many Pa Grouse. Penny & Daisy set up the big Covert for Ken & Harolds fine Grouse gunning. Both great Grouse dogs now hunt with my Grandfather.


Last edited by Pine Creek/Dave on Sun Aug 22, 2021 4:09 pm; edited 1 time in total

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Swampy16
PostPosted: Sun Aug 22, 2021 1:37 pm  Reply with quote



Joined: 17 Oct 2019
Posts: 453
Location: New Jersey

Where’s the like button?
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Bill K
PostPosted: Mon Aug 23, 2021 5:35 am  Reply with quote



Joined: 13 Oct 2014
Posts: 253
Location: North Shore of Boston

I live in northeastern Massachusetts and started hunting in 1966 when I was 15 years old - at that time partridge were plentiful, then again so weren't wild pheasant.

I hunted partridge mostly the first few years at Harold Parker WMA in Andover MA, about 8 miles from where I lived. And Harold Parker is a hop, skip and a jump across town from where the game of skeet was invented - skeet was invented back in the 1920s to hunt partridge. So, although I didn't know it at the time, I was probably hunting the same birds Charles Davis and William Foster (the creators of skeet) did.

Partridge and wild pheasant pretty much disappeared from the scene somewhere in the mid 1970s. When that happened I knew how the buffalo hunters felt 80 years or so previous - to watch something so plentiful just disappear.

I am told that in Massachusetts the principal reason partridge went away was due to poor forest management. Massachusetts has quite a few WMAs however, I've watched what formerly was prime upland cover turn into thick, unrecognizable, forests because our so called Fisheries and Wildlife Department is political and not servants of the people. Frankly I've some of the least qualified people holding down critical jobs and made a career out of not doing their job. Pitiful.

But there appears to be an up turn nowadays, young college-educated wildlife biologists are entering the ranks, and there is a glimmer of hope as they replace the dinosaurs as they die off.

I am 70 now, and I kind of doubt that I will ever hunt partridge in Massachusetts again. As a matter of note these days the only sizable populations of partridge are located a 3 to 4 hour drive due north in the tippity top of NH - and that's a long way to go to get skunked. Lets face it those birds are dam near impossible to hit, and where you find them is pretty tough cover.

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Bill K
North of Boston
Browning New A5 Sweet Sixteen circa 2019
Browning Citori Upland 16 GA circa 2014
Darne R10 1962
Browning Sweet Sixteen 16 GA circa 1957
Savage Fox Sterlingworth 16 GA circa 1934
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Bill K
PostPosted: Mon Aug 23, 2021 5:36 am  Reply with quote



Joined: 13 Oct 2014
Posts: 253
Location: North Shore of Boston

I live in northeastern Massachusetts and started hunting in 1966 when I was 15 years old - at that time partridge were plentiful, then again so weren't wild pheasant.

I hunted partridge mostly the first few years at Harold Parker WMA in Andover MA, about 8 miles from where I lived. And Harold Parker is a hop, skip and a jump across town from where the game of skeet was invented - skeet was invented back in the 1920s to hunt partridge. So, although I didn't know it at the time, I was probably hunting the same birds Charles Davis and William Foster (the creators of skeet) did.

Partridge and wild pheasant pretty much disappeared from the scene somewhere in the mid 1970s. When that happened I knew how the buffalo hunters felt 80 years or so previous - to watch something so plentiful just disappear.

I am told that in Massachusetts the principal reason partridge went away was due to poor forest management. Massachusetts has quite a few WMAs however, I've watched what formerly was prime upland cover turn into thick, unrecognizable, forests because our so called Fisheries and Wildlife Department is political and not servants of the people. Frankly I've some of the least qualified people holding down critical jobs and made a career out of not doing their job. Pitiful.

But there appears to be an up turn nowadays, young college-educated wildlife biologists are entering the ranks, and there is a glimmer of hope as they replace the dinosaurs as they die off.

I am 70 now, and I kind of doubt that I will ever hunt partridge in Massachusetts again. As a matter of note these days the only sizable populations of partridge are located a 3 to 4 hour drive due north in the tippity top of NH - and that's a long way to go to get skunked. Lets face it those birds are dam near impossible to hit, and where you find them is pretty tough cover.

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Bill K
North of Boston
Browning New A5 Sweet Sixteen circa 2019
Browning Citori Upland 16 GA circa 2014
Darne R10 1962
Browning Sweet Sixteen 16 GA circa 1957
Savage Fox Sterlingworth 16 GA circa 1934
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Pine Creek/Dave
PostPosted: Mon Aug 23, 2021 10:08 am  Reply with quote



Joined: 17 Mar 2017
Posts: 2786
Location: Endless Mountains of Pa

Gentlemen,

There is a place in Mass that still holds Grouse, Fort Devens. If you can get permission to hunt it really has not changed too much. Getting permission to hunt is not easy however, usually you need to be active duty military or have some military connections.

all the best,

Pine Creek/Dave
L.C. Smith Man

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Bill K
PostPosted: Mon Aug 23, 2021 10:34 am  Reply with quote



Joined: 13 Oct 2014
Posts: 253
Location: North Shore of Boston

RE; Fort Devens - that's REAL interesting.

I thought hunting at Fort Devens went away decades ago.

I don't have a direct connection to Fort Devens however, I am a contract engineer to the Air Force and that may buy me some traction.

Thanks for mentioning it !, I'll definitely look into that - and this is the time of year to check such leads out.

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Bill K
North of Boston
Browning New A5 Sweet Sixteen circa 2019
Browning Citori Upland 16 GA circa 2014
Darne R10 1962
Browning Sweet Sixteen 16 GA circa 1957
Savage Fox Sterlingworth 16 GA circa 1934
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Pine Creek/Dave
PostPosted: Mon Aug 23, 2021 3:21 pm  Reply with quote



Joined: 17 Mar 2017
Posts: 2786
Location: Endless Mountains of Pa

Bill K,

The ability to get permission now is probably very hard, it was always tight to begin with and probably has been limited even further. I never heard they fully closed it however.

all the best,

Pine Creek/Dave
L.C. Smith Man

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Bill K
PostPosted: Wed Aug 25, 2021 5:24 am  Reply with quote



Joined: 13 Oct 2014
Posts: 253
Location: North Shore of Boston

To Pine Creek/Dave -

A quick update on Fort Devens.

It took a bit of doing but I finally found a hunting application dated 2019. No other points of contact can be found.

The form is vague, I presume the situation is similar to hunting on Camp Edwards on Cape Cod - which is limited to turkey & deer.

But I sent a letter (explaining my focus on partridge) out to them attached to a marked up copy of their application - so I'll see.

I hunted there over 30 years ago, and had lost track of what has happened in the mean time.

Thanks for stirring my attention.

BTW there is an article posted by a MA Div F & W person, specifically on hunting grouse, she mentions 8 WMAs.

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Bill K
North of Boston
Browning New A5 Sweet Sixteen circa 2019
Browning Citori Upland 16 GA circa 2014
Darne R10 1962
Browning Sweet Sixteen 16 GA circa 1957
Savage Fox Sterlingworth 16 GA circa 1934
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Pine Creek/Dave
PostPosted: Wed Aug 25, 2021 12:25 pm  Reply with quote



Joined: 17 Mar 2017
Posts: 2786
Location: Endless Mountains of Pa

Bill K,

Glad I could stir your interest in Ft Deven Grouse hunting once again, let us know how things turn out! My hunting at Ft Devens was over 30 years ago also, when I was in the 2nd Group, was back in the 80's as a CID Special Agent, with my daughter, to clean out my locker. Did not get to hunt on that trip however. Good luck getting permission to hunt Grouse on Ft Devens. It was at one time well worth getting permission.

all the best,

Pine Creek/Dave
L.C. Smith Man

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16gaDavis
PostPosted: Wed Aug 25, 2021 3:01 pm  Reply with quote



Joined: 24 Jun 2013
Posts: 2062
Location: canandaigua - western n.y. (formerly deerhunter)

Dave , we got our old Bath camp in 1953 . Lucked into a rich guys house built in the mid 1800's He just up and left . The block we were on was 2mi X 3mi , and could go on other surrounding areas to hunt ! Flannel shirt , leather shoes , and a 1898 model 97 winnie ! 1 oz paper shells and a Golden Retriever . Mostly scattered woods of all types . Not as many deer back then and few turkeys compared to now . However , I do believe the 1800's experience was still alive and well for us ! ( rich guy had 3 story house , huge pot belly stove ,3 barns , 2 tractors and actually had a few hundred ft of rail that had 3 cars on it - this all 3/4 of a mile from an actual non driveway road !)


Last edited by 16gaDavis on Thu Aug 26, 2021 5:42 am; edited 1 time in total

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Pine Creek/Dave
PostPosted: Wed Aug 25, 2021 5:01 pm  Reply with quote



Joined: 17 Mar 2017
Posts: 2786
Location: Endless Mountains of Pa

16gaDavis,

Sounds fantastic, great place at the right time! More than likely the owner got to old to take care of his placed and left, it happened back in that era for sure, great place to purchase for the family, lots of guys would love to own it today!

all the best,

Pine Creek/Dave
L.C. Smith Man

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16gaDavis
PostPosted: Thu Aug 26, 2021 5:53 am  Reply with quote



Joined: 24 Jun 2013
Posts: 2062
Location: canandaigua - western n.y. (formerly deerhunter)

The story around the property was that he hated some things that occured around WW2 with the gov't . He ha several places and just refused to pay taxes to the pt that the prop became avail thru back taxes . When confronted with the fact that he had to pay up or leave , he hopped in the car and away they went - never came back . Some times progressiveism works to YOUR benefit !!! .... it is mostly different today . mostly overgrown woods . Has been logged . But. many of the old orchards still have enough apples to attract the birds .Lots of accorns ! TOUGH TO SHOOT THEM THOUGH !!!!

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Pine Creek/Dave
PostPosted: Thu Aug 26, 2021 11:36 am  Reply with quote



Joined: 17 Mar 2017
Posts: 2786
Location: Endless Mountains of Pa

16Davis,

Progressiveism is Communism, it never works for the freedom of man kind, the government stole his land and resold it for the tax money. Never a good thing even if another man profits from it. It is was one of the reasons Ben Franklin wanted the words Congress shall write no law for the redistribution of wealth, in the original US Constitution.

I feel badly for the original owner who probably built the home and owned the land. No home owner should ever loose his home and land because of Taxes.

Pine Creek/Dave
L.C. Smith Man

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