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< 16ga. Ammunition & Reloading ~ Bismuth in a Steel recipe? |
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Posted:
Sat Sep 04, 2021 3:28 am
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Member
Joined: 06 Oct 2007
Posts: 2354
Location: West MI
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Posted this on another forum I visit, thought it might get some responses here as well. Did a quick search if it had been mulled over before to no avail, the 10ga load reference could easily be transplanted with a 16ga load, same curiosity....
Not sure this has been discussed before, if so please point me in the direction of the previous thread. More of an academic curiosity/exercise, IN THEORY, and all else being equal, if the same weight of bismuth was put in a tested/verified steel reloaded recipe, say a 10ga 1.5oz load of steel BB's was replaced w/1.5oz of bismuth BB's, assuming there will need to be a bit more felt filler since the Bis takes up less space; would pressure go up, stay the same or go down? Speed; up, same or down? My guess is pressure would go down since there is less payload pressing the wad petals against the hull wall and speed would be the same or maybe go up with less friction on the wad. |
_________________ Sorry, I'm a Duck Hunter so shouldn't be held strictly responsible for my actions between Oct 1st and ice up. |
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Posted:
Sat Sep 04, 2021 4:19 am
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Member
Joined: 09 Jan 2013
Posts: 2172
Location: Florida
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What length shell ? Isn't there any Bismuth data for what you are trying to do ? |
Last edited by fn16ga on Sun Sep 05, 2021 2:13 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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Posted:
Sat Sep 04, 2021 11:32 am
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Joined: 04 Mar 2019
Posts: 1847
Location: Central ND
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The pressure will go down.....but why does everyone make this bismuth stuff so difficult when it is simple.
For the 16......find a lead load that you like, replace the lead with 1/8 oz. less Bismuth and have at it.
The pressure will usually be the same as the lead load or less and the velocity may go up 20 - 50 FPS depending on the load.
Unless you are going to buffer Bismuth the above is all it takes.
I developed I don't know how many unbuffered Bismuth loads that were published by Precision Reloading. Every 12 and 16 gauge load was derived as above. There weren't many loads that I had to re-shoot a second time.
I will assume that you won't be using a powder like Longshot for a 7/8 oz. Bismuth load etc. You need to use the powder that is appropriate for the task at hand.
K.I.S.S. that's my motto, and for good reason. |
_________________ Mark...You are entitled to your own opinion. You aren't entitled to your own facts. |
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Posted:
Sun Sep 05, 2021 2:13 am
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Member
Joined: 06 Oct 2007
Posts: 2354
Location: West MI
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Appreciate the input, not trying to make it difficult at all, as stated, just an interesting idea/academic exercise wondering what others thought about where it might end up. I really don't need another 16ga bis load, you shared a 1 1/8oz beauty that works well on med Ducks. Although I'm still playing with 16davis's 1 3/8oz bis load for Geese.
I'm looking for my Moby Dick/Holy Grail of long range 10ga Goose loads (w/o going to tungsten and hoping for a MI Crane season) and after seeing this in Lymans 5th....
10 ga Remington 3 1/2"
Remington 209 primer
36 gr Bluedot
BPD10 wad + 20ga felt in bottom
2oz bismuth
PSB buffer
12ga overshot card
fold crimp
1220fps
caught my eye in a few ways, not many bis recipes available in a full coverage steel wad, there's many available in a SP10 giving barrel scrub on pellets that I'm trying to keep round and go far holding a nice pattern, so, got me thinking that at 10 paces it comes very close to some of my steel loads, but slower, so the idea was why not supplant the steel in them for an equal amount of Bis and get them tested, the inquiry here and over on Refugeforums is simply that; whadayall think of the idea. |
Last edited by putz463 on Mon Sep 06, 2021 1:33 am; edited 1 time in total _________________ Sorry, I'm a Duck Hunter so shouldn't be held strictly responsible for my actions between Oct 1st and ice up. |
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Posted:
Sun Sep 05, 2021 2:20 pm
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Member
Joined: 09 Jan 2013
Posts: 2172
Location: Florida
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If it where me I would add enough soft filler (some thing like felt) to make it crimp good and help cushion the shot . Typically ( almost always ) the use of soft fillers and softer shot will decrease the pressure . So depending how close the load is to max pressure I would increase the powder charge by 1.5-2 grains and send it in for testing . |
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Posted:
Mon Sep 06, 2021 1:47 am
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Member
Joined: 06 Oct 2007
Posts: 2354
Location: West MI
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Thanks fn16, good stuff, the lower pressure would be a nice side bene for these steel loads that are bumping their heads on and putting dents in the pressure ceiling. |
_________________ Sorry, I'm a Duck Hunter so shouldn't be held strictly responsible for my actions between Oct 1st and ice up. |
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Posted:
Mon Sep 06, 2021 5:21 am
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Joined: 13 Oct 2015
Posts: 348
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Posted:
Tue Sep 07, 2021 5:51 am
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Member
Joined: 09 Jan 2013
Posts: 2172
Location: Florida
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I certainly would not worry about being at max pressure with that gun , I think it would be adventitious . |
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Posted:
Tue Sep 07, 2021 5:56 am
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Joined: 16 Jul 2015
Posts: 2127
Location: Hudson,Wy
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I'll be honest, I doubt you can gain much range, if any, using bismuth in a 10 ga. It's not much denser and it doesn't hold as short a shot string/ as tight a pattern at 50-70 yards. Back in my heyday of pass shooting snow geese I settled on 1 3/4 oz of #B steel shot for my 10 ga. O/U and clean kills in the 70 yard range bracket were the norm. #1 an BB worked pretty well too, but #B was best. For large Canadas I use the same load with BBB with similar results.
Last year I did use Bismuth in a 2 7/8" chambered 10 ga. Parker, and it worked fine, but it didn't impress me as being much better than what I had been doing with steel in a 3" 12 ga. It's a whole lot of expense for little or no gain, other than being friendly to vintage barrels. |
_________________ Only catch snowflakes on your tongue AFTER the birds fly south for the winter... |
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Posted:
Tue Sep 07, 2021 11:57 am
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Joined: 14 Oct 2011
Posts: 61
Location: England
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MSM2019 wrote: |
The pressure will go down.....but why does everyone make this bismuth stuff so difficult when it is simple.
For the 16......find a lead load that you like, replace the lead with 1/8 oz. less Bismuth and have at it.
The pressure will usually be the same as the lead load or less and the velocity may go up 20 - 50 FPS depending on the load.
Unless you are going to buffer Bismuth the above is all it takes.
I developed I don't know how many unbuffered Bismuth loads that were published by Precision Reloading. Every 12 and 16 gauge load was derived as above. There weren't many loads that I had to re-shoot a second time.
I will assume that you won't be using a powder like Longshot for a 7/8 oz. Bismuth load etc. You need to use the powder that is appropriate for the task at hand.
K.I.S.S. that's my motto, and for good reason.
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That is great theory that you seem to have put into practice.
Just to doubly make it clear in my head….. take your favourite 1 1/8 lead load and then replace the lead with 1oz Bismuth and pressure is similar? I presume it would work similar with Kent Tungsten Matrix?
Regards
Graham |
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Posted:
Tue Sep 07, 2021 3:19 pm
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Joined: 04 Mar 2019
Posts: 1847
Location: Central ND
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Graham,
I don't have any experience with Tungsten Matrix, so I can't really give you a yes or no on it. |
_________________ Mark...You are entitled to your own opinion. You aren't entitled to your own facts. |
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Posted:
Wed Sep 08, 2021 8:36 am
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Joined: 14 Oct 2011
Posts: 61
Location: England
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No worries
Tungsten is send
See than bismuth and near to lead. I doubt I will shoot too much of it in 16ga and have tested a few loads based on ITX data which seems to work ok.
I have some bismuth which I tend to use in the 16ga as I like to use fibre wads. I can’t use fibres with the ITM as although soft it is abrasive |
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Posted:
Thu Sep 09, 2021 6:31 am
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Joined: 24 Jun 2013
Posts: 2068
Location: canandaigua - western n.y. (formerly deerhunter)
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Mike , if you can get ahold of a BP Advantages manual , they have a section in the back with loads for ITX 10 , which will probably match out with bizz as good as it gets . Loads are for big "B" shot which is probably why they don't quite tip out at the 2 oz . |
_________________ Molly sez AArrrooooooah ! |
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Posted:
Sat Sep 11, 2021 3:11 am
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Member
Joined: 06 Oct 2007
Posts: 2354
Location: West MI
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Appreciate the shared real world advice/experience WC, I use the same gun for most of my Waterfowling but have some w/tubes and some w/o. I have some fantastic steel loads that are very effective just looking for what might be a little better...because we can. Did you put the steel through the OEM fixed chokes which are/were usually full/Xfull in those guns? Hoping the bis allows me to not have to send a couple out for tubes.
Thanks Bill, interesting thought, I'll look into it. |
_________________ Sorry, I'm a Duck Hunter so shouldn't be held strictly responsible for my actions between Oct 1st and ice up. |
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Posted:
Sat Sep 11, 2021 5:32 am
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Joined: 16 Jul 2015
Posts: 2127
Location: Hudson,Wy
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I use a San Marco 10ga. O/U, fixed choke. When I bought it the chokes were .065/.065 constriction. I reamed them to a .042/.047 combo. |
_________________ Only catch snowflakes on your tongue AFTER the birds fly south for the winter... |
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