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<  16ga. General Discussion  ~  Pre 13 L.C. Smith 16 gauge, my ultimate Grouse Guns
Pine Creek/Dave
PostPosted: Wed Jul 28, 2021 10:50 am  Reply with quote



Joined: 17 Mar 2017
Posts: 2787
Location: Endless Mountains of Pa

Gentlemen,

Our family has been hunting Grouse & Woodcock for generations now I have been fortunate to have many of our family guns passed down to me from the Grouse and Woodcock hunters who came before me. Our family tradition runs long on Grouse hunting and Fly fishing. Because my Great Grandfather and John Hunter Sr were very close friends our family owns more than a few special made pre 1913 L.C. Smith double guns. Having owned many different fine double guns during my 70 plus years, I have come to appreciate my L.C. Smith 16 gauge guns even more than when I was young. Having owned Fox, LeFever, Parker, Boss and even a Churchill, my favorite double guns for hunting Grouse are still my Pre 13 L.C. Smith 16 gauge double guns. No other gun fits me as perfectly, carries as nicely or swings more perfectly. These guns are engineered with 2 9/16" Chambers for 1oz, 2 1/2" shells, to me the perfect Grouse load. Later in 1929 Hunter Arms furnished the 16 gauge with 2 3/4" Chambers, I caution sportsman to measure every 16 gauge L.C. Smith Chamber to make sure exactly which engineering he owns.

Using 2 3/4" shells in the 2 9/16" Chambers can be done because of the taper at the end of the L.C. Smith Chambers, however this is an abuse of a fine gun, that can help lead to stock damage, when using modern Nitro type shells. Although Hunter Arms furnished the 2 3/4" Chambers from 1929 on, no engineering change was ever made to the stock dimensions. 1oz shells were still recommended for the 16 gauge L.C. Smith double guns, many sportsman unknowingly abused their fine L.C. Smith double guns, by using modern 2 3/4" nitro type shells, above 1oz in them.

We own many fine L.C. Smith double guns, all are now over 100 years old, none have cracked stocks because the guns were used & stored properly per the instructions that came with the guns.

all the best,

Pine Creek/Dave
L.C. Smith Man

2 fine pre 1913 L.C. Smith 16 gauge Grouse Guns, the Silver Breech 16 gauge is part of a Special made 4 gun set, I am missing the 12 gauge gun made exactly like it. I am willing to purchase the gun back no questions asked. If you happen to see the gun please let me know via private mail.





Last edited by Pine Creek/Dave on Wed Jul 28, 2021 11:26 am; edited 1 time in total

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RGuill96971
PostPosted: Wed Jul 28, 2021 11:25 am  Reply with quote



Joined: 21 Mar 2019
Posts: 519
Location: Texas

Dave:
Nice looking doubles, one of the best in my mind.
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Pine Creek/Dave
PostPosted: Wed Jul 28, 2021 11:32 am  Reply with quote



Joined: 17 Mar 2017
Posts: 2787
Location: Endless Mountains of Pa

RG,

Thank you sir for the nice comment!

all the best,

Pine Creek/Dave
L.C. Smith Man

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revdocdrew
PostPosted: Thu Jul 29, 2021 5:06 am  Reply with quote
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Joined: 28 Dec 2005
Posts: 2016
Location: Glendale, AZ

Hunter Arms Company lengthened the 20 gauge chambers from 2 1/2" to 2 3/4" about 1936. It is not uncommon to find 16g chambers still 2 9/16" until about 1940.

Recent discussion on the LCSCA site regarding nickel finish guns
https://members.boardhost.com/lcsmith/msg/1626375021.html

If you would send me the SN I'll ask Dr. Jim to look in the records to see if the finish was done by Hunter Arms.
revdoc2@cox.net

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Pine Creek/Dave
PostPosted: Thu Jul 29, 2021 1:37 pm  Reply with quote



Joined: 17 Mar 2017
Posts: 2787
Location: Endless Mountains of Pa

RevDoc,

Yes the 20 gauge Chamber engineering was changed to 2 3/4" in approx 1936 - 1939, exact date is unknown. However the 16 gauge guns Chamber engineering was changed to 2 3/4" in 1929, approx 10 years prior to Hunter Arms changing the engineering on the 20 gauge guns.
I do recommend each owner having the Chambers of both the 20 and 16 gauge guns measured, to assure what shells should be used in their particular gun. Checking the date of the SN can give the owner an idea of the chamber engineering, however the best way to actually know the size of the chambers on any individual gun, is to have the chambers measured by a professional with the correct tools.

The Silver Breech gun pictured in the post is not the same as the Chrome plated guns manufactured by Hunter Arms, on their later post 1913 guns. The gun pictured is a 1906 gun that the breech work was returned to Hunter Arms for assembly, after the Silver Breech engineering process was invented/applied here in Pittsburgh, Pa JL&B mill. Side Locks were Damascened and highly polished, similar too the #5 guns. The 12 gauge gun I am looking too retrieve, is a pre 1913 gun made with that same engineering process. If the gun still exists we would like to have it returned to our gun collection. It is part of a Special L.C. Smith gun set, made for my Grandfather for his 13th birthday. The gun has been missing for many many years.

all the best,

Pine Creek/Dave
L.C. Smith Man


Last edited by Pine Creek/Dave on Fri Sep 10, 2021 9:05 pm; edited 2 times in total

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hayseed
PostPosted: Thu Jul 29, 2021 3:08 pm  Reply with quote



Joined: 14 Feb 2017
Posts: 401

Pine Creek/Dave, was this a one of a kind set or did they offer these at the time?
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Pine Creek/Dave
PostPosted: Fri Jul 30, 2021 10:40 am  Reply with quote



Joined: 17 Mar 2017
Posts: 2787
Location: Endless Mountains of Pa

hayseed,

This was actually a 3 gun set arranged by my Great Grandfather with John Hunter and in 1926 my Grandfather added a matching .410 gun for his mother, the Silver work was never offered by Hunter Arms, each individual breech was returned to John Hunter for the gun to be completed by the Hunter Arms company. The SN's were not in sequence because the guns were actually made at different times. The only gun that was not a pre 1913 gun was my Great Grandmothers .410. All 4 guns were considered executive type guns and all documents were shipped with each individual gun. Hunter Arms did make some Chrome breech guns, John Houchins and I were able to compare my Silver Breech 20 & 16 gauge Guns with the later made Chrome breech guns, when John found a 12 gauge that he believed might be my Grandfathers missing gun, the guns do look similar. However what John had uncovered was a 1916 Chrome breech 12 gauge gun, not the gun we were looking for. The Chrome plated gun was very nice however, and in almost pristine condition. However the internal side lock on the Chrome plated guns are not Damascened & highly polished. We probably should have purchased the Chrome Breech 12 gauge gun, to show the differences in the guns.

all the best,

Pine Creek/Dave
L.C. Smith Man


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tdnathens
PostPosted: Sun Sep 12, 2021 1:29 pm  Reply with quote
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Joined: 26 Oct 2007
Posts: 141
Location: Kentucky

Dave; If we see this 12 gauge model how will we know it? Give us the specifications on this model so we can help your search.

Tom
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Pine Creek/Dave
PostPosted: Sun Sep 12, 2021 4:51 pm  Reply with quote



Joined: 17 Mar 2017
Posts: 2787
Location: Endless Mountains of Pa

Tom,

When you see one of these Silver breech guns you will instantly recognize it, take a good look at the 16 gauge Silver Breech 00, in the 1st set of pictures. You might confuse it with the Chrome plated later made Field Grade versions, as John did. However if you pass the location information on to me, I will contact who ever has the gun myself to personally check it out.

all the best,

Pine Creek/Dave
L.C. Smith Man

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