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Pine Creek/Dave
PostPosted: Sat Sep 04, 2021 6:13 pm  Reply with quote



Joined: 17 Mar 2017
Posts: 2786
Location: Endless Mountains of Pa

Gentlemen,

Here in Pa at one time we had more Grouse than any place in the USA, mostly because of the incredible logging that took place in the 1800's and early 1900's.
At that time the Pa mountains had a vast array of forest coverage in all the different growth stages, from mature old Growth to the just logged forests. We had incredible habitat, and in some places still do.

My Grandfather and my Father both got to witness on a daily basis one of Gods greatest gifts, the gathering of many Grouse in large numbers during the fall and early winter, here in the Pa mountains. Many Grouse hunters even during that era had not witnessed a Grouse covert holding over 20 birds. Because of our family tradition of hunting Grouse and Woodcock each season, at the age of 14 years I saw my 1st 30 bird Grouse covert, in the Potter County mountains.

For years I had listened as the older men talked about giant Grouse Coverts and how just about all of them had only taken one Grouse, from the big covert as it took to the air, after the initial gun shot. Each to the man agreed that it took a seriously fine Grouse dog, to set the birds up without spooking them, so they're masters actually got to see all the Grouse in one place, and were lucky enough to gun the big covert.

Until I was about 14 years old I could hardly believe this could actually happen, Grouse stories like these around our home, had been told sense before I was ever born. Little did I understand my Father and Grandfather never embellished their actual Grouse hunts. After seeing my 1st big Grouse covert, I understood they never had to exaggerate their Grouse hunting adventures, or how good they were at gunning Grouse.

Now many men who do a lot of Grouse hunting never get to witness a big Grouse covert. Many times I believe its because they do not have quiet enough Grouse dogs to make it happen, and the birds scatter before the men arrive to see the birds gathered in one spot. My Grandmother told me stores of her as a child, chasing many numbers of Grouse from her mothers garden in Gaines township, and how it had lead to the purchase of her Parker DHE 28 gauge double gun as a young wife. Now I knew my Grandmother had a reputation of being one of the best female Grouse shots in Potter County. Even so I doubted the big Grouse Covert stories, that is until I stood in the middle of a 30 plus bird covert, and almost missed downing a single Grouse. Seeing such an event as a boy at almost 14 years old, shook me up real good, and it was just plain luck my 20 gauge L.C. Smith knocked a Grouse down, as it skirted the Beech trees. Grouse every where and I only dropped one bird. I started to understand why the other men, had only killed one bird.

When I was about to graduate from high school I can remember my Grandfather sitting in the Grouse woods with me on a big downed tree, telling me that Grouse hunting as he knew it was about over. He further went on to tell me he thought I would be the last of our family, to see the big Grouse Covert rises, and he has been pretty much right.

However just a short time ago, we were able to see the incredible gift happen once again. I was able to show my good friends Ken Graft and Gunny Bowman the Big Grouse Covert rise, mainly because of my incredible Ryman and Gordon Grouse Dogs Daisy & Penny. The great thing about this particular Grouse hunt, it was my buddy Ken Grafts 1st Grouse hunt with his new Parker Reproduction 16 gauge double gun, Gunny had witnessed the big Grouse Covert rise a few years before, in approximately the same area. They each shot one Grouse as the big covert exploded into the air. I was blessed to see it for the 4th time in my hunting life, nothing can compare to it, nothing. I would like to be able to tell my Grandfather when I see him in heaven, I got to witness 5 times, what he got to see every day as he Grouse hunted our Potter County mountains. God has gifted me greatly.

Have you ever been lucky enough to witness a large Grouse Covert?

all the best,

Pine Creek/Dave
L.C. Smith Man

Ken receives his big Grouse from Pine Creek Ryman Daisy, from that incredible Grouse Covert Rise.


Last edited by Pine Creek/Dave on Fri Sep 10, 2021 8:44 pm; edited 2 times in total

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16gaDavis
PostPosted: Sun Sep 05, 2021 10:22 am  Reply with quote



Joined: 24 Jun 2013
Posts: 2062
Location: canandaigua - western n.y. (formerly deerhunter)

The year I turned 14 , we were hitting the hills a round Savona and I shot 30 shots with a 20 ga winnie 37 , if that tells you anything !!! Since that time , I have seen the pop like that maybe 2X , last time maybe 15yrs ago .

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Pine Creek/Dave
PostPosted: Sun Sep 05, 2021 3:35 pm  Reply with quote



Joined: 17 Mar 2017
Posts: 2786
Location: Endless Mountains of Pa

16gaDavis,

It does seem like my grandfather was correct, actually witnessing a large Grouse covert has become more and more rare. Even when the Grouse population was a lot higher you had to put in your time Grouse hunting, before the Lord rewarded a hunter with seeing a large number of Grouse in one Covert.

Lets hope the Lord sees fit to let us see this incredible sight a few more times. The last time I saw it happen, I had my double gun unloaded and slung across my shoulder, as I worked with my Grouse dogs, giving Ken & Gunny the opportunity to gun the birds. By the time I got my gun down and turned around, I had time to only load one shell and close the Silver Breech L.C. Smith 16 gauge double gun. Penny and Daisy never broke point, however Gunny Bowman killed the 1st Grouse off the Ground, and Ken Killed the 2nd, the Grouse covert was so spooked they kept coming off the ground all around us. Me being late to the flush, swung on a bird escaping thru the hardwoods. My timing was absolutely perfect to kill a big Grouse, unfortunately a big oak tree safe guarded the Flying Grouse and he escaped unharmed as my shot was obsorbed by the massive oak tree. I remember Gunny harassing me about killing a fine oak tree. Again nobody shot a true double Grouse out of the big Grouse Covert. When I made that remark, Gunny Bowman reminded me these were not wild Quail and everything is spook crazy with the loud noises created by all the Grouse flushing in different directions.

Man I want to live long enough to see it happen again!

all the best,

Pine Creek/Dave
L.C. Smith Man


Gunny Bowman accepting his Grouse from Daisy. Gunny always played with Daisy after a fine retrieve. It was like they respected each others talents.


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IDcut
PostPosted: Sun Sep 05, 2021 5:35 pm  Reply with quote
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Joined: 26 Jun 2005
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Location: North ID.

I've had the opportunity to witness large groups of blue nd ruffed grouse, more than once over the years, here in N ID.

Many years ago, before I was old enough to have a hunting license, hunting an uncle's ranch, my older brother and a couple of son's of my dad's good friend, were hunting together, with my dad, uncle and dad's friend hunting in a different area of the ranch.

We hiked across some fields to where there were some breaks of a canyon. Eventually coming upon a basalt rockslide, we took a break and during the short break, one of the son's let out a "tarzan" yell and all heck broke loose. Blue grouse starting flushing left and right. I think my older brother and the 2 friends unloaded their guns and didn't touch a bird! I will agree that that the birds startled us all, when they stated to flush.

I also came upon a large number of blues when elk hunting one time and wished at the time, I had a shotgun. Same with a large number of ruffed grouse when I was going out deer hunting.
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Pine Creek/Dave
PostPosted: Sun Sep 05, 2021 11:42 pm  Reply with quote



Joined: 17 Mar 2017
Posts: 2786
Location: Endless Mountains of Pa

IDcut,

Got to admit I have been lucky to actually be Grouse hunting when we had our encounters with the large Grouse coverts. The most exciting are the times when the Grouse are buried under the snow. When this happens it is extremely important to know exactly where your dogs stand on point. Having a young dog who breaks point during this time, can be very dangerous. With snow flying all about as the Grouse bust from under the snow, it's heart pounding to watch and gunning is not exactly easy. Sampson my Small Munsterlander and Rosie my GSP were incredible at finding and pointing Grouse under the snow. Explaining this Grouse explosion from under the snow is hard to describe, snow is flying every where and Grouse are flying every where all at the same time. Add a couple of men gunning the birds and a couple dogs and it becomes more than just exciting. I have shot, Elk, Bear, Deer, Turkey and Bob Cat thru the years, none of that hunting tops a big Grouse covert rise from under the snow, IMO the most exciting thing a man can due standing upright.

all the bet,

Pine Creek/Dave
L.C. Smith Man

Winter in Pa can be a very special time!

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IDcut
PostPosted: Mon Sep 06, 2021 6:46 am  Reply with quote
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Joined: 26 Jun 2005
Posts: 376
Location: North ID.

Agreed, not too many hunting experiences equate to the excitement of multiple flushes of ruffed grouse and I have experienced multiple flushes of ruffies in snow, but again I was elk hunting. Had to let the heart settle down for a moment before continuing on.

The deer hunt previously mentioned...a friend and I were driving to our spot down an old logging road and saw 2 ruffed grouse in an elderberry tree. Packing shotguns in the back seat, my friend grabbed his shotgun and jumped out of the rig to attempt a shot on them. The first one flew out of the tree and presented a nice straight away down the road, a whiff, the second one did the same, another whiff on the shot. A few more jumped from the grass below the tree and another whiff. By that time, I jumped out of the vehicle and grabbed the Winchester Model 37 and a couple of shells. A few more jumped up from the base of the tree and flew behind the elderberry tree with no presentable shot. I finally got a presentable shot and dropped one. Meanwhile my friend continued to shoot at birds that were jumping up and that he could take a poke at. We ultimately ended up with the one bird I had downed with numerous clean misses on those my friend had shot at and another I took a shot at. By the time it was all done, there must have been 20 plus birds that had flushed, providing some early morning excitement. That was many years ago and I still remember the scene vividly...great memories!
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Pine Creek/Dave
PostPosted: Mon Sep 06, 2021 10:56 am  Reply with quote



Joined: 17 Mar 2017
Posts: 2786
Location: Endless Mountains of Pa

IDcut,


Not surprising that you only ended up with one downed Grouse, when the snow starts flying gunning gets very interesting. Glad you were able to witness such a nice covert rise. Watching your buddy gun the birds and not hit any, must have been a little nerve racking also. At least you had the presence of mind to load your gun and actually down a bird, many men when presented with the same situation just sit and watch the Grouse explode from under the snow. You did very well loading your gun and then getting into position to drop a flying Grouse, congrats on some fine gunning.

all the best,

Pine Creek/Dave
L.C. Smith Man

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Brewster11
PostPosted: Thu Sep 09, 2021 12:07 pm  Reply with quote



Joined: 08 Feb 2009
Posts: 1301
Location: Western WA

Dave
I enjoy your recollections, which give me pause to recall the days of my youth in Michigan when grouse were so plentiful they could be found scurrying and strutting around in the “popple” clearings like so many chickens in a barnyard, such were the days.

In the springtime along with the continual drumming of the males were the “bweep bweep bweep” calls of the hens rounding up their little broods of chicks.

It now seems that epoch was a biological anomaly, brought on by tidal wave of logging across the upper Midwest that spawned millions of acres of young second growth softwoods.

V/R
B.
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Pine Creek/Dave
PostPosted: Thu Sep 09, 2021 1:12 pm  Reply with quote



Joined: 17 Mar 2017
Posts: 2786
Location: Endless Mountains of Pa

Brewester11,

I would not call it an anomaly, what it did show is that given the correct habitat Grouse will flourish in large numbers. Habitat and predators have a big impact on the over all Grouse populations in any given area. Grouse are not domestic birds they need the wild habitat to thrive. One of the worst decisions that was ever made here in the USA, was to put predator birds on the no kill list, making them more important than our other wild life. Small game populations have suffered greatly because of this poor wild life management decision. Our Grouse and small game population would boom once again with proper forest management and if the predators were put on equal level with the rest of our small game. In reality the treaties were instituted for back door gun control, very little small game numbers, very few people wanting to hunt. It worked in Europe and they tried the same thing here in the USA, however it has not worked as well here. These treaties should have been eliminated long ago, liberalism is a disease that is hard to cure however.

all the best,

Pine Creek/Dave
L.C. Smith Man

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Brewster11
PostPosted: Thu Sep 09, 2021 10:14 pm  Reply with quote



Joined: 08 Feb 2009
Posts: 1301
Location: Western WA

Dave
Speaking of predators, the forest manager of our deer hunting area here in Western Washington says the deer herd is being wiped out by a population boom of cougars. He estimates the cougar population has tripled since the state outlawed hunting with dogs a couple decades ago. On average, a cougar kills a deer every 9 to 12 days. He wants us to concentrate on eliminating cougars in our area this season…not an easy task, but the boys say they are up for it.

B.
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Pine Creek/Dave
PostPosted: Fri Sep 10, 2021 10:02 am  Reply with quote



Joined: 17 Mar 2017
Posts: 2786
Location: Endless Mountains of Pa

Brewster11,

That is typical of the management practices we have going on in most states. Now they want to hunt Cougars after they have caused their population to boom, by elimination of the original hunting season on them.

This is the 1st I have heard of the Cougar problem effecting your states Deer population, just another typical mismanagement of predator populations. Hope the Deer hunters and the Cougar hunters can get the situation back in balance.

all the beat,

Pine Creek/Dave
L.C. Smith Man

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lowgun
PostPosted: Mon Sep 13, 2021 10:00 pm  Reply with quote



Joined: 02 Nov 2010
Posts: 47
Location: Maryland

Anyone have a good recipe for Red Tails or Great Horned Owl?
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IDcut
PostPosted: Tue Sep 14, 2021 6:12 am  Reply with quote
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Joined: 26 Jun 2005
Posts: 376
Location: North ID.

Living in N ID, I recall very well, when WA outlawed cougar hunting with dogs. At the time various "experts" said that the cougar population could be controlled by hunting them, in a nutshell, as one does other big game i.e. Deer, elk, and shooting them incidental to hunting other big game, when encountered, etc! I thought at the time the so called "experts" were spewing hogwash and I still believe that!

Just wait until the wolves gain a good foothold in W WA, you'll be lucky to find any deer in the area you hunt and with the politics of WA as it is now, it won't change anytime soon!
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Dave in Maine
PostPosted: Fri Sep 17, 2021 5:51 pm  Reply with quote



Joined: 12 Sep 2010
Posts: 1972
Location: Maine

Back in 2012, a good grouse year here in Maine, I put up a covey of 5 grouse. Not all at once, but clearly a group.
I missed them all. Two or three went up after my 20ga Parker was empty and I was struggling to reload quickly.

I am hearing reports out of northern Maine that this year is a good grouse year. They had a good hatch and it was quite dry through the end of June. Lots of birds being seen.

I hope to get up north this year - new job has me working 5x8....

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nj gsp
PostPosted: Sun Oct 03, 2021 5:39 am  Reply with quote



Joined: 09 Aug 2007
Posts: 437
Location: WI

I few years ago my dog pointed a family group of at least 6 birds. I know there were at least six because I missed six times, there were probably more birds that I didn't see go.

Missed the first two that flushed, reloaded, missed my first ever chance at a true double as two more flushed at the same time, reloaded again, and missed with the last two shots. My dog was steady the entire time. It was humbling to be sure. That was the largest "covey" I think I ever found.

The next day I flushed 17 birds and shot 2 of the 5 I had shots at, so I felt somewhat redeemed!
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