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MaximumSmoke
PostPosted: Mon Oct 11, 2021 11:19 am  Reply with quote
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Bill K,

At least you have the right stock/grip config for easy use of double triggers. My Fox Sterlingworth 16 has its original stock and the grip "radius" is a little too tight for me to comfortably move to the second trigger. I shoot all the different trigger, action and stock types, and my hands are slim and not on the big side, but I find those Fox pistol grips too tight, especially the Philadelphia ones. The round knob ones found on some graded Foxes are much better, but I really prefer straight grips for DT's.

I must say I don't move my hand when changing triggers; that's not what you're supposed to have to do. With the straight or English grip one's trigger hand is held more horizontally, freeing the muscles in the hand to enable a quick fingers-only move when switching triggers. Some experience banged up middle fingers with the straight grip -- the finger behind the trigger guard. If the shooter will hold his elbow properly -- i.e. down about 45 degrees below horizontal, instead of the "prone-rifle-pose" where the elbow is held up at ear level, finger bruising is much, much less likely to happen, the trigger hand taking its portion of the recoil without encountering the trigger guard.

I'd love to convert my Sterly to straight grip, but its tangs are so low. It would be a costly job to raise them enough to look right and then re-do the case colors. Therefore, I'm hesitant to do so with a gun of that value in the condition of my gun. Though the Sterly is an excellent gun, it is a low priced, work-a-day grade. Mine is in too nice a condition to disturb and then re-color. The stock, of course, has the drop characteristics of older US guns, and while I can adapt to it, it is a PITA to do so. Consequently I don't shoot the gun enough to be as quick as I want. I'll probably either sell the gun as is, buy something that fits me better, or make a new stock with a more "relaxed" Prince of Wales grip so I can leave the frame tangs alone. I do love the A.H. Fox action; the guns are so trim and sensible. I've had this gun for a couple of decades. I bought it to be my woods grouse gun, but I had better-fitting stuff to shoot so it didn't/doesn't get much exercise. Shot a bunch of sharptails with it.

Question Idea -- Offers accepted - light weight, #3 barrels if I recall correctly, 28" barrels, chambers lengthened to 2 3/4 and chokes opened to .007 and .011 if I recall that correctly, all done by Mike Orlen, original wood except recoil pad on buttstock, probably 14 inch LOP, wood freshened up nicely by previous owner, and if I was a betting man -- and I am -- the barrels look like someone gave them a really nice rust re-blue.
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Bill K
PostPosted: Tue Oct 12, 2021 6:04 am  Reply with quote



Joined: 13 Oct 2014
Posts: 231
Location: North Shore of Boston

et al:

I am enjoying this posting and all the comments.

Couple things I'd like to mention -

First off I want to thank BarkeyVA for the suggestion to get a couple of snap caps and 'work' with the arm - that's helped a lot. Basically it boils down to 'finger discipline' - as silly as that may sound, its the truth.

And to MaximumSmoke, I appreciated hearing you talk about your Fox Sterlingworth with a traditional pistol grip, I can very much envision what you describe.

Talking about my Fox Sterlingworth, it came from the factory with an English style stock, and has come forward through time untouched. Back when I first got it a couple of my friends took interest in it, going so far as to find an original advertisement for it dating back to 1934.

When I first got it I had the arm checked out from muzzles to butt plate by Steve at Britannia Sporting Arms in Portsmouth NH, as at first glance it seemed too good to be true.

It weighs 6 pounds 1.9 ounce, and those 26" 16 ga barrels mounted on that 20 ga frame make it the ballsiest double I've ever held. With the exception of one, everyone who sees and handles it wants to buy it.

I have only one negative thing to say about it - I shot one round of skeet with it and the barrels got searing hot ! I mean hot enough to cook meat on ! I had to let it sit in the rack for a good 45 minutes (no exaggeration) in order for it to be comfortably handled. Which to me says that it is a true field gun - meant to be fired a handful of times spaced over the time of an outing in the field.

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Browning New A5 Sweet Sixteen circa 2019
Browning Citori Upland 16 GA circa 2014
Browning Sweet Sixteen 16 GA circa 1957
Savage Fox Sterlingworth 16 GA circa 1934
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WyoChukar
PostPosted: Tue Oct 12, 2021 8:09 am  Reply with quote



Joined: 16 Jul 2015
Posts: 1886
Location: Hudson,Wy

This is a case of mental process/habit/ muscle memory. I took to preferring double triggers once I became accustomed to them, but there are some interesting anomalies tied to this. Occasionally I will go for the back trigger on a long flush...with one of my single trigger guns!

I have Wm. Cashmore 12 ga that appears to have been converted to single trigger at some time (it had issues I needed to address, so I think it was done aftermarket) and I pondered converting it back to double trigger. Then I thought about the mod/full choke combo, realizing that I would use the gun a lot during the winter and decided that single trigger is kind of nice when I resort to wearing gloves in the sub zero wind.

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Pine Creek/Dave
PostPosted: Tue Oct 12, 2021 8:34 am  Reply with quote



Joined: 17 Mar 2017
Posts: 2108
Location: Endless Mountains of Pa

WYOChukar,

Garhart one of the things that has always baffled me is why the gun manufacturers did not allow for wearing gloves on their DT engineering designs. Even L.C. Smith who sold millions of DT guns never designed their DT spacing for a thicker pair of gloves to be worn in extremely cold weather. I use a thin pair of bull rider gloves when shooting my DT guns even in the winter time. The gloves I like most are now getting real hard to purchase. I have never liked thicker gloves for shooting, I like to be able to feel the triggers on my DT & SST guns.

all the best,

Pine Creek/Dave
L.C. Smith Man

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MaximumSmoke
PostPosted: Tue Oct 12, 2021 12:27 pm  Reply with quote
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I shoot all configurations, but sometimes you're a DT guy and sometimes you're not. I strongly recommend getting an old Browning Superposed with the Double Single Trigger. I know - I know . . . it's not a Fox, and certainly not a SxS . . . damn! . . . so this solves no one's problem. But sometimes I wish more manufacturers would have made triggers like the Double Single, where each trigger fires it's own barrel first, be that bottom or top and then either trigger will fire the remaining barrel. Mine has never failed me. They look nice on the gun, too. I always liked the look of two triggers in a well-shaped trigger guard.

I guess the Double Single represents the ultimate in indecision for Browning. Single triggers did not have a good reputation for reliability in the days when the Superposed came out (1931), especially selective ones, and Browning wanted its customers to have maximum flexibility of use with this very modern-for-the-times new gun. So the Double Single was the safe choice. I don't know when they discontinued it, but it didn't last long. I have not had mine apart, but I can't believe it can be less complicated than the good selective single triggers of today. It's probably parts-count intensive, at least.

Cheers!
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Hammer bill
PostPosted: Tue Oct 12, 2021 1:29 pm  Reply with quote



Joined: 09 Feb 2015
Posts: 439

Years ago I bought 2 Lefevre off the rack of a dealer. Sold by the family of an old dentist that passed away. Barrels and recievers were fine but 3 of the 4 firing pins were broke. Stock was cracked at the wrist on one. When I got home and took them apart to blue the barrels & receiver I noticed one was converted from none selective to selective. Who ever done it made it very simple.
I order semi-inlet stocks from Faijen at the time. When the guns were done the one with the selective conversion worked fine for everyone who shot it except one guy. Everytime he shot it both barrels would go. He always had a real bad flinch problem on trap skeet or SC. He ended up buying the gun and said if I can learn to shoot this thing then maybe I'll cure my flinch problem. Son of a gun he did solve his flinch problem. Many guys tried to buy the Lefevre from him but he would not part with it.
I know this is a little off subject but Everytime hear similar subject I think about the guy. He's long gone to that big clay field upstairs now.
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putz463
PostPosted: Wed Oct 13, 2021 2:18 am  Reply with quote
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Bill K, I hope you get the hang of the DT's, I prefer them in my O/U's and actually dream of the opposite; finding someone who could convert my Citori Upland Special to DT's.

Regarding the DT/ST glove conversation, I hunt my DT O/U 10ga's in late winter typical midwest weather with no glove issues, being Waterfowl/Turkey designed guns maybe the trigger guards and trigger dimensions are designed a good enough size to allow, never been an issue or really thought much of it. I once owned a Zabala SxS 20 and currently own a Merkel O/U 16 both very trim svelte shotguns and had/have articulating front triggers. In winter for upland work the articulating front triggers got out of the way when going for the back trigger. Not sure the articulating design had gloves in mind, thought it was to protect the finger from front trigger recoil slap but it does help. Food for thought.

That snap cap idea sounds like it might work for you, best of luck with it....

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MaximumSmoke
PostPosted: Wed Oct 13, 2021 4:13 pm  Reply with quote
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putz463,

I have DT's on my Beretta 686 24 gauge. They are the newer Beretta type that are lined up directly one in front of the other, each having it's own pivot, rather than two trigger blades on the same pivot axle as on the DT's found on earlier Beretta O/U's like the Silver Snipe, et al, and every SxS DT I've experienced. One problem with traditional DT's is their default orientation and firing order (as well as barrel chokes on SxS's) being set up for right-handers only, making them uncomfortable for lefties due to angles of the triggers, etc. I long for an old Beretta S2 or S3, or maybe an ASE, with double triggers. They are sweet. These on my Beretta 686 O/U are a compromise, presumably so they can be slightly uncomfortable for both left-handers and righties. You can sure tell when a gun has been made by Commies. Twisted Evil Laughing

Don't major manufacturers know? . . . Lefties' Lives Matter! (No, I'm not left-handed or even left-leaning, not sinistra, nor gauche.) Laughing

Cheers!
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Researcher
PostPosted: Wed Oct 13, 2021 6:05 pm  Reply with quote



Joined: 13 Jun 2009
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Browning's idea was not new.

From the first decade of the twentieth century --


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putz463
PostPosted: Thu Oct 14, 2021 2:46 am  Reply with quote
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MS, there you go parading that 686 24 in front of my nose again, smiling. Reminder; IF/When you EVER get sick of those terribly aligned DT's on that little niche 24ga O/U PLEASE let me know. I'd be happy to relieve you of your suffering. Very Happy

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MaximumSmoke
PostPosted: Thu Oct 14, 2021 8:04 am  Reply with quote
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Laughing For sure, putz463, you're on the top of the list. I remember that most of the time, but don't forget to remind me once in a while!

Thanks and Best Regards,
Tony
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Two Pipe Shoot
PostPosted: Thu Oct 14, 2021 9:06 am  Reply with quote
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I like double triggers so much that I had Coleís convert my 28 gauge Silver Pigeon from one trigger to two. Works great for me in the field and is particularly fun beating 12 gauge guns at the range. They see the small hulls, double triggers, and watch me shoot it low gun, then scratch their heads while they reconsider their choices.

Reno

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Dave in Maine
PostPosted: Thu Oct 14, 2021 3:25 pm  Reply with quote



Joined: 12 Sep 2010
Posts: 1857
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Re: being a lefty
I'm one of the most lefthanded people I know, and it suits me just fine. All my doubles are set up for righties. That and tying flies are two of the very few things I do that are set up for righties. I grew up on doubles set up for righties and have no problem with it.
A friend, also a lefty, goes a bit further. He shoots with a lefthanded London best gun, where the triggers are reversed and the toplever is, too. It swings to the left. And reversing the triggers isn't enough. If you look closely at most good doubles you'll notice the triggers are twisted just a skosh to make for a better grip between trigger finger and trigger. His are twisted left.
It was made that way. Special order. Nice gun.

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Lloyd3
PostPosted: Thu Oct 14, 2021 3:37 pm  Reply with quote



Joined: 17 Jan 2014
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I prefer the term "southpaw" to "lefty" for a number of reasons, but I too am blessed/cursed with that affliction. This year another complication seems to be developing and that is the diminished effect of what was once my most dominant eye (my left eye) and am now developing more of a central-vision effect. Going to see the eye docs this year (after I get home from the North Country) to see what my options are on that one. It's always something, eh?

Got to love those made-as Left shotguns. Always wanted one. Have an Arrieta that is cast left and even has the triggers canted to the left but is still not a mirror-image gun.

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UncleDanFan
PostPosted: Fri Oct 15, 2021 7:41 am  Reply with quote
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I have a hard time shooting a single trigger gun. I keep reaching for the rear trigger after the first shot. Keep at it, and don't be surprised if all your guns end up having two triggers. Wink

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