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<  16ga. Ammunition & Reloading  ~  Steel in Marlin-Era LC Smith?
salish
PostPosted: Tue Oct 19, 2021 10:16 am  Reply with quote



Joined: 19 Oct 2015
Posts: 94
Location: seattle, wa

Hello,

I have a Marlin era LC Smith (1946) 16ga and I was wondering if steel shot can be safely used in it. The shotgun had already been restocked and the barrels reblued when I bought it. It had been choked full & mod, and I had it opened up to Mod & imp. cyl. Given the choke modification, would it be safe to shoot steel through it? It wouldn't be my first choice, but with non-tox being so difficult to find, and super expensive once you find it, I'm looking at all options.

Thanks,
Cliff
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Dave in Maine
PostPosted: Tue Oct 19, 2021 12:51 pm  Reply with quote



Joined: 12 Sep 2010
Posts: 1972
Location: Maine

I wouldn't.
YMMV.

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salish
PostPosted: Tue Oct 19, 2021 12:55 pm  Reply with quote



Joined: 19 Oct 2015
Posts: 94
Location: seattle, wa

Dave in Maine wrote:
I wouldn't.
YMMV.


Any reason why not?
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revdocdrew
PostPosted: Wed Oct 20, 2021 6:54 am  Reply with quote
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Joined: 28 Dec 2005
Posts: 2016
Location: Glendale, AZ

Plans & Specifications of the L.C. Smith Shotgun by William S. Brophy contains a a Featherweight drawings dated Feb. 19, 1929 which specifies the barrel as “Steel App. 40 Carbon”, likely AISI 1040.
The barrel was not designed for steel shot, and I would not use steel in any barrel that was not nickel steel or chrome moly.
The chokes would be compatible with steel, and the modern steel shell shot cups are quite thick to protect the bores, but it is not worth the risk.

The other issue is that modern steel loads usually have very high speed, with substantial recoil. The Marlin era Smith guns did have more wood in the head of the stock but there is still a risk of cracks.

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salish
PostPosted: Wed Oct 20, 2021 9:19 am  Reply with quote



Joined: 19 Oct 2015
Posts: 94
Location: seattle, wa

revdocdrew wrote:
Plans & Specifications of the L.C. Smith Shotgun by William S. Brophy contains a a Featherweight drawings dated Feb. 19, 1929 which specifies the barrel as “Steel App. 40 Carbon”, likely AISI 1040.
The barrel was not designed for steel shot, and I would not use steel in any barrel that was not nickel steel or chrome moly.
The chokes would be compatible with steel, and the modern steel shell shot cups are quite thick to protect the bores, but it is not worth the risk.

The other issue is that modern steel loads usually have very high speed, with substantial recoil. The Marlin era Smith guns did have more wood in the head of the stock but there is still a risk of cracks.


Huge help, revdocdrew, this is exactly what I was hoping for. Thank you.
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Sporting Days
PostPosted: Wed Oct 20, 2021 12:13 pm  Reply with quote
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Joined: 03 Aug 2009
Posts: 203
Location: Northern California

I have a L.C. Smith 16 gauge Field Grade built the exact same year with 2 3/4-inch chambers. I stick to RST loads -- including Bismuth nontoxic when nontoxic hunting loads are required because of the aforementioned reasons -- even though have been tempted to use BOSS, HeviBismuth and other nontoxic loads. Stick with the RSTs if you can get them.
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salish
PostPosted: Wed Oct 20, 2021 10:21 pm  Reply with quote



Joined: 19 Oct 2015
Posts: 94
Location: seattle, wa

Sporting Days wrote:
I have a L.C. Smith 16 gauge Field Grade built the exact same year with 2 3/4-inch chambers. I stick to RST loads -- including Bismuth nontoxic when nontoxic hunting loads are required because of the aforementioned reasons -- even though have been tempted to use BOSS, HeviBismuth and other nontoxic loads. Stick with the RSTs if you can get them.


Thank you for your suggestions. I have used RST several times in the past. Great company to work with. Do you choose to not shoot Heavy Bismuth or BOSS because of pressure issues? I've read that BOSS is copper plated.
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putz463
PostPosted: Thu Oct 21, 2021 3:05 am  Reply with quote
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Joined: 06 Oct 2007
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Location: West MI

I have one as well, 28" F/M DT, absolutely love the gun. Very sturdily built. I've put many target loads through it and hunted early season last year with it using bismuth hand loads and no regrets. Considering a purchase of some Boss shells since they are essentially the same cost as hand loads and approx the same specs I prefer for Ducks in the Dekes. Actually hope to find some time in the next couple days to hunt some small water with it.

I'm spectacle about having reservations putting steel through the gun. If it had the 26" M/IC barrels or I sent it out for tubes or as the OP did had the F/M opened to M/IC, I think I would put steel through it. As I see it the pressure generated by steel shells is within spec that any modern 2 3/4" smokeless powder gun would be built to and the speed is really not that much different and the shot charge on most 16ga steel loads is usually around 7/8-15/16oz, add all this up and recoil On Paper should be no more than a lead or bis load of equal or even a bit heavier shot charge. Yes, steel shot bridging through chokes is a concern, but, all rules of thumb regrading modern steel shot (& wad) though any barrel/choke is... No Tighter Than M especially with Duck sized shot #6-#3, should be good to go. Goose loads, bis #1-#BB in 16Davis's (and my modified version) 1 3/8oz thumper, is another story but actually prefer my 870 for that stuff, Re; heavier gun absorbs the recoil a bit better before it gets to my shoulder. + if ever needed, parts should be easier to find. Very Happy

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Sporting Days
PostPosted: Thu Oct 21, 2021 9:16 am  Reply with quote
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Joined: 03 Aug 2009
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Location: Northern California

While folks -- and the companies themselves -- say BOSS and HeviBismuth are safe to use in older guns I just don't want to take the chance. While the shot may be soft and safe those are some stout, modern pressures for guns built in the 1940s.

They may be totally fine to use, but then again why risk it. The RST Bismuth loads are pretty pricey -- but the good news is that they typically are in stock and if you use them for hunting purposes, you really don't go through that many shells on an upland bird hunt, especially if you have other guns in the safe you also like to get out during the season.

I've got two boxes of RST Bismuth 5s and 6s that will see me through upland hunting season pretty well.
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salish
PostPosted: Thu Oct 21, 2021 5:44 pm  Reply with quote



Joined: 19 Oct 2015
Posts: 94
Location: seattle, wa

Thanks for the additional comments guys, I appreciate it. Sporting Days, it sounds like you are saying that you really don't know that BOSS or Hevibismuth is too stout or hard to use on my 1946 Elsie, but your preference would be against using it, just in case. I can respect that.
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