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MaximumSmoke
PostPosted: Thu Jan 20, 2022 10:13 am  Reply with quote
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Joined: 01 Dec 2005
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Location: Minnesota and Florida

Wow! Very interesting, Builder and Riflemeister -- You guys are way ahead of me. I am amazed you can move a stock 3/4 of an inch or more and still have shoulder comfort. What works, works!

Thanks!
Tony
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Old colonel2
PostPosted: Thu Jan 20, 2022 10:39 am  Reply with quote



Joined: 07 Jun 2020
Posts: 224

Not sure about moving it on a particular stock, however I have two guns so modified that work for me very well with 3/4 inch cast off
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MSM2019
PostPosted: Thu Jan 20, 2022 10:55 am  Reply with quote



Joined: 04 Mar 2019
Posts: 1819
Location: Central ND

Wow, that is much more cast at the heel than I have ever seen. If those shotguns have stock bolts, how do the bolts align? Did the fitter also re-inlet for the stock bolt?

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Builder
PostPosted: Thu Jan 20, 2022 11:49 am  Reply with quote



Joined: 21 Mar 2013
Posts: 111
Location: Northern New Jersey

I have a similar unit like Riflemeister however the quality of the workmanship on his is heads and shoulders above mine. When I built mine I did not expect to use it a lot. That turned out to be wrong but so far it has held up pretty well.

I have only done a few that had through bolts. I honestly had the same thoughts as MSM2019. Encouragement from members of Doublegunshop gave me the courage to do it on an almost new gun. Through bolt shotguns are mostly newer ones. It moved the same as all the other shotguns without inletting the bolt further.

I will point out that it is wise to clamp the cheeks of a box lock just behind the receiver so the cheeks don't spread when you apply pressure at the butt end. Ask me how I know.

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MSM2019
PostPosted: Thu Jan 20, 2022 11:54 am  Reply with quote



Joined: 04 Mar 2019
Posts: 1819
Location: Central ND

Thanks.

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Riflemeister
PostPosted: Thu Jan 20, 2022 12:47 pm  Reply with quote
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Builder wrote:
I have a similar unit like Riflemeister however the quality of the workmanship on his is heads and shoulders above mine. When I built mine I did not expect to use it a lot. That turned out to be wrong but so far it has held up pretty well.

I have only done a few that had through bolts. I honestly had the same thoughts as MSM2019. Encouragement from members of Doublegunshop gave me the courage to do it on an almost new gun. Through bolt shotguns are mostly newer ones. It moved the same as all the other shotguns without inletting the bolt further.

I will point out that it is wise to clamp the cheeks of a box lock just behind the receiver so the cheeks don't spread when you apply pressure at the butt end. Ask me how I know.


On the support of the stock cheeks when bending a stock, that is an absolute must to prevent splitting your stock. If you look at the top jig picture I posted, you will see a slotted block with a nut and washer on top, these are leather faced on the inside and are clamped tightly on the cheeks before attempting any bend.

When I attended Jack Rowe's Double Gun Gunsmithing class at Tishomingo, OK a few years before he passed, he taught a method where the wrist and cheeks were wrapped tightly with small rope that was then saturated with linseed oil and then heated with a propane torch before bending. He did not demonstrate that method, but when I later showed him a picture of my jig, he said it was much better than his method.

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Aurelio Corso
PostPosted: Fri Jan 21, 2022 6:20 am  Reply with quote



Joined: 08 May 2018
Posts: 196

Does that jig work if your gun has a long tang?
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Riflemeister
PostPosted: Fri Jan 21, 2022 8:21 am  Reply with quote
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I'll answer that one later, I'm in the process of bending the long tang Upland Gun SXS with long upper and lower tangs. My first attempt at getting 3/8" cast off resulted in only .200" from a .5" bend after springback after cooling and releasing the bending force. About to try bend #2 as most of the bend is further back into the grip than I would prefer. This gun is really the toughest one I've attempted to date.

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Riflemeister
PostPosted: Tue Jan 25, 2022 8:36 am  Reply with quote
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I finished the bending for cast off on my RFM SXS. The long tangs, POW grip, through bolt plus a thicker than usual wrist, combined to make it a real challenge. It required 4 incremental bending sessions over a three day period to attain the 3/8" cast off. After heating the wrist and putting in a bending force of 1/2" on the first attempt, the stock exhibited tremendous springback once it had cooled for half a day and the bending force was removed. The first attempt barely netted 1/8" additional cast. Over the next couple of days, I slowly walked the stock over in 1/8" increments while lengthening the time of the pre-heating and post bend heating. The final effort saw the stock bent to .750" from neutral and when cooled to room temperature and the bending force backed off it ended up with the desired 3/8" cast off. It was by far the toughest bending job I've ever attempted and the amount of bending force put into the stock far exceeded any that I've done in the past. The only thing that kept me going was that I really wanted to see if it could be done and the knowledge that if it didn't take the bend, I would be going to Wenig for a fitted butt stock anyway, so it didn't matter if it broke.

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MaximumSmoke
PostPosted: Tue Jan 25, 2022 1:01 pm  Reply with quote
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Joined: 01 Dec 2005
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Location: Minnesota and Florida

Riflemeister,

What actually do you do with the through-bolt? Are you bending that too? If so, I find that astonishing. If the through-bolt stays in there, screwed into the "tang spreader"/"tang piece" in the rear of the frame, might that be why it takes so much force and there is so much springback? Once the wood has been bent, unless you are actually bending the tangs of the frame or otherwise distorting or pivoting the vertical part of the frame that holds the tangs apart, which I doubt, the through-bolt must have been bent considerably. You remove the trigger guard for sure, and re-shape it to fit afterward, but do you remove the trigger plate before bending, as well? I should think not. If the through-bolt is bent with the stock, how does one remove it?

I would think a through-bolt must be removed before bending and then re-located afterward by altering the angle and/or diameter of the through-hole in the buttstock. If the through-bolt has been removed before bending, some means of holding the stock to the action must be provided. I'm having a hard time imagining how that could be done. Could it be the through-bolt hole is first reamed out so the through bolt has some room to accommodate the bend, and then is re-installed to hold the stock firmly to the frame? Afterward, if bent, is the throughbolt removed (the bent bolt has room to wobble in the larger hole), straightened out and re-located in the enlarged through-hole, and maybe shimmed up a bit afterward if necessary?

If you could clue me in to the little details of bending through-bolt guns, I would be most grateful.

Thanks!
Tony
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Riflemeister
PostPosted: Tue Jan 25, 2022 5:44 pm  Reply with quote
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Nope, the through bolt has to be in place and snugged up when the bend is done or you'll end up with a pile of kindling. The through bolt is what is actually holding the stock in place and the bracing blocks are ensuring the bending force doesn't spread the stock and split it. I've bent many through bolt stocks and a few have ended up with a slight bend in the bolt that you can feel as it is screwed in or out, but I've been shooting them for years with no issues whatsoever. The threads in the action where the through bolt screws in are usually a bit sloppy and can accommodate a slightly bent bolt, The through bolt hole in the stock is not a precision fit and actually has a bit of room to move around slightly, I make no attempt to enlarge the hole in the stock. The inletting of the head of the stock is what actually positions the stock on the action, not the fit of the through bolt. The sole function of the through bolt is to firmly pull the stock into it's inletting at the head of the stock.

The things that made this last stock difficult to bend were a combination of things, but mainly it was a very short wrist area between the rear of the tangs and the POW grip area, An English style stock would have been relatively easy to bend on this gun. This RFM SXS has a trigger guard pinned to the to the tang and need not be removed, all the bending takes place well aft of the trigger guard.

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MSM2019
PostPosted: Tue Jan 25, 2022 5:58 pm  Reply with quote



Joined: 04 Mar 2019
Posts: 1819
Location: Central ND

I love threads like this. Really interesting.

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Pine Creek/Dave
PostPosted: Wed Jan 26, 2022 12:45 pm  Reply with quote



Joined: 17 Mar 2017
Posts: 2787
Location: Endless Mountains of Pa

Riflemiester,

Good stuff!

all the best,

Pine Creek/Dave
L.C. Smith Man

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Chicago
PostPosted: Thu Jan 27, 2022 7:12 am  Reply with quote
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It never ceases to amaze me at the amount of talent we have at this site.
Good Hunting,
Mike
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Builder
PostPosted: Tue Feb 01, 2022 9:02 am  Reply with quote



Joined: 21 Mar 2013
Posts: 111
Location: Northern New Jersey

It is nice that the members with all that knowledge are willing to share it with you.

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