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<  16ga. Guns  ~  Francisque Darne?
kennedy756
PostPosted: Sat Feb 26, 2022 1:15 pm  Reply with quote



Joined: 30 Sep 2015
Posts: 637
Location: NEW SALISBURY INDIANA

just bought one in 16ga, trying to find out more about it. It has Francisque Darne on top lever. It has Mod.Dep 17.6.20 on both side plates. also on the left just above the safety is Roge Henriot, on right side is A Verdun. I know I need to take the barrels off to see the markings on the flats, just don`t now how to take them off, any help? there is a button forward of the trigger guard, what does it do?

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16ga 3-Win 37
16ga Ithaca 37 1946
16ga Western Auto Revelation
16ga Browning A-5 1929
16ga Marlin 90 1939
16ga browning citori lightning grade 3 2003
16ga Francisque Darne 1920
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Ted Schefelbein
PostPosted: Sat Feb 26, 2022 5:57 pm  Reply with quote



Joined: 19 Jun 2004
Posts: 1480
Location: Mpls, MN.

Francisque Darne was Regis Darnes eldest son. He started his own shop in 1910, producing guns built on the early, 1894 patent R model guns. He also altered those guns, and patented refinements to them. But, his time was short, as he perished in 1917. The company soldiered on under various owners until 1955. The quality of the guns varied under different owners, but, I’ve never seen a bad gun, just some that are better than others.
This is going to sound brutal, but, to remove those barrels, you have to break an interference fit. Open the breech all the way. Looking in the area the breech slides back and forth in, you will see a piece of metal that has two serrated forks, just under the barrel. Push down on the metal, just behind the forks, with a finger or plastic pen. DO NO PUSH ON THE FORKS THEMSELVES, AND DO NOT USE ANY TOOLS! It will move down about 1/8th inch. Grasp the wrist with your left hand, and wrap your right hand around the barrels, and the wood, while depressing the button in. Jamb the barrels into a wooden surface, with a thrusting motion, a 2X4 stud in an unfinished wall works well, the guys at the factory used a piece of Masonite mounted to the wall. It may take a time or two if it hasn’t been taken down in a while. It sounds bizarre, but, that is how it is done. Don’t lose your grip on the tubes or gun after you break the interference fit, just slide the barrels toward the breech to remove them. If you need more help, you can let me know and I’ll give you a phone number by PM and walk you through it.
If you can post a photo of the flats, after you get the barrels off, Ill translate for you.

Best,
Ted

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kennedy756
PostPosted: Sat Feb 26, 2022 6:31 pm  Reply with quote



Joined: 30 Sep 2015
Posts: 637
Location: NEW SALISBURY INDIANA

thanks, it has a button forward of the trigger guard, pressed it and hit the barrel on the carpet and it popped off, please send me an email at bktkennedy@gmail.com and I will reply with pics since I have a problem posting pics on this forum

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16ga 3-Win 37
16ga Ithaca 37 1946
16ga Western Auto Revelation
16ga Browning A-5 1929
16ga Marlin 90 1939
16ga browning citori lightning grade 3 2003
16ga Francisque Darne 1920
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kennedy756
PostPosted: Sat Feb 26, 2022 7:17 pm  Reply with quote



Joined: 30 Sep 2015
Posts: 637
Location: NEW SALISBURY INDIANA

what I figured out with goggle is the 17 on the barrels mean 16 ga the 6.5 on the flat means its the short chamber. the crown over PT is the proof, It has Mouthicr &co which means who owned the company when it was made ser no is 702x, not sure when it was made, barrels measure 27 inches and chokes measure out to full and IM. it has 3 of the grade stamps. I am sure its been refinished, looks perfect. The butt plate looks like hell

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16ga 3-Win 37
16ga Ithaca 37 1946
16ga Western Auto Revelation
16ga Browning A-5 1929
16ga Marlin 90 1939
16ga browning citori lightning grade 3 2003
16ga Francisque Darne 1920
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Ted Schefelbein
PostPosted: Sat Feb 26, 2022 9:57 pm  Reply with quote



Joined: 19 Jun 2004
Posts: 1480
Location: Mpls, MN.

I sent an email. I’ll get your photos up when you send them.

Best,
Ted

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kennedy756
PostPosted: Sun Feb 27, 2022 6:49 am  Reply with quote



Joined: 30 Sep 2015
Posts: 637
Location: NEW SALISBURY INDIANA

pics sent last nite and this morning

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16ga 3-Win 37
16ga Ithaca 37 1946
16ga Western Auto Revelation
16ga Browning A-5 1929
16ga Marlin 90 1939
16ga browning citori lightning grade 3 2003
16ga Francisque Darne 1920
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Ted Schefelbein
PostPosted: Sun Feb 27, 2022 7:30 am  Reply with quote



Joined: 19 Jun 2004
Posts: 1480
Location: Mpls, MN.

Pics:

Best,
Ted

[url=https://ibb.co/FWQrBL2] [/url]
[url=https://ibb.co/XZbFgrJ] [/url]
[url=https://ibb.co/wgGqpLp] [/url]
[url=https://ibb.co/tJzSWDZ] [/url]
[url=https://ibb.co/r35kSbM] [/url]
[url=https://ibb.co/xhd6KDT] [/url]
[url=https://ibb.co/YXmyLZL] [/url]


Last edited by Ted Schefelbein on Sun Feb 27, 2022 7:46 am; edited 2 times in total

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kennedy756
PostPosted: Sun Feb 27, 2022 7:43 am  Reply with quote



Joined: 30 Sep 2015
Posts: 637
Location: NEW SALISBURY INDIANA

so any idea when it was made and if its been refinished?

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16ga 3-Win 37
16ga Ithaca 37 1946
16ga Western Auto Revelation
16ga Browning A-5 1929
16ga Marlin 90 1939
16ga browning citori lightning grade 3 2003
16ga Francisque Darne 1920
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Ted Schefelbein
PostPosted: Sun Feb 27, 2022 7:56 am  Reply with quote



Joined: 19 Jun 2004
Posts: 1480
Location: Mpls, MN.

It has positively been refinished. I had a conversation with a guy a few years past about a gun that was refinished by Brad Bachelder, and I would bet it is this gun.

It is an old gun, as the chamber length marking is 6.5, and not 65. That style of marking went away before about 1924, but, nobody including some knowledgeable Frenchmen that I communicate with knows for sure. That company was the first or second owner of Francisque Darne after his death, and they were still noting on the flats of their guns that they had won a gold metal at an exposition in 1914, so, after that, but before the proof laws changed (which, changed some gun markings on the flats) in 1924.

That is as close as I can get on age.

I have a Jallas & Cie Francisque Darne catalog, and I will dig it up and get a photo of what model it is-the actual models didn’t change too much between these two makers, and it wasn’t until after WWII when the company became part of SIFARM, that the models and names changed.

Some of the markings are just advertising, but, a couple are interesting. The note of polished longitudinally points out the the barrels were bored in a two story machine that was built by Manufrance, and used by a few makers. This was clever as hell, the machine was installed at Bruchet when I was there, and they were boring their barrels with it in the 1990s, and had owned that copy of the machine since the war. Francisque Darne Fils Aine, stamped on the flats, refers to F. Darne being Regis Darnes eldest son, who I am sure was planning on a long and successful career, that was cut short. A bit sad.




[url=https://ibb.co/FWQrBL2] [/url]
[url=https://ibb.co/XZbFgrJ] [/url]
[url=https://ibb.co/wgGqpLp] [/url]
[url=https://ibb.co/tJzSWDZ] [/url]
[url=https://ibb.co/r35kSbM] [/url]
[url=https://ibb.co/xhd6KDT] [/url]
[url=https://ibb.co/YXmyLZL] [/url]


Best,
Ted

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"Well sir, stupidity isn't technically against the law, and on that note, I'll remove the handcuffs and you are free to go".
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double vision
PostPosted: Sun Feb 27, 2022 8:24 am  Reply with quote
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Interesting 16.
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Ted Schefelbein
PostPosted: Sat Mar 05, 2022 8:11 am  Reply with quote



Joined: 19 Jun 2004
Posts: 1480
Location: Mpls, MN.

The F. Darne grades remained the same between the Mouthier and Jallas versions of the company. Your gun has more engraving than the catalog gun, shown, as it was produced earlier.

This is the Jallas version of the F. Darne catalog I have:

[URL=https://www.jpgbox.com/page/68977_600x400/] [/URL]

Your gun was known as a model T:

[URL=https://www.jpgbox.com/page/68978_600x400/] [/URL]

Type T 32. Your gun has three quality stamps. It is a mid grade gun, there were less expensive and higher priced and graded guns in the catalog.


Best,
Ted

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Old colonel2
PostPosted: Sat Mar 05, 2022 7:13 pm  Reply with quote



Joined: 07 Jun 2020
Posts: 224

Saw this video on YouTube on darne disassembly.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zqRr1Kvq3Tw

Not sure if it applies to this particular model or is correct. Ted is a better judge than I as I have never owned a Darne, just a Manufrance Ideal
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kennedy756
PostPosted: Sat Mar 05, 2022 7:52 pm  Reply with quote



Joined: 30 Sep 2015
Posts: 637
Location: NEW SALISBURY INDIANA

WOW Ted, thanks

_________________
16ga 3-Win 37
16ga Ithaca 37 1946
16ga Western Auto Revelation
16ga Browning A-5 1929
16ga Marlin 90 1939
16ga browning citori lightning grade 3 2003
16ga Francisque Darne 1920
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Ted Schefelbein
PostPosted: Sat Mar 05, 2022 8:13 pm  Reply with quote



Joined: 19 Jun 2004
Posts: 1480
Location: Mpls, MN.

Old colonel2 wrote:
Saw this video on YouTube on darne disassembly.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zqRr1Kvq3Tw

Not sure if it applies to this particular model or is correct. Ted is a better judge than I as I have never owned a Darne, just a Manufrance Ideal



Good Lord, this guy is a goul. The main spring should be depressed about an 1/8” or so, before you go pounding on the muzzles to get it apart. One of the foreign language comments pointed that out, but, I doubt most people will get it.

The F. Darne that is the subject of this post has a button to depress to get the barrels off. Good design.

Best,
Ted

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