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< 16ga. Ammunition & Reloading ~ Crimp Strength 8 point vs 6 point |
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Posted:
Mon Mar 07, 2022 7:44 pm
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Joined: 06 Aug 2007
Posts: 127
Location: Alabama
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I'm sure this has been covered here but not sure how i would go about searching for it. I'm assuming the 8 point crimps are weaker than 6 point. Reason is because i made up about 125 loads of 1 -1/8 ounce loads for some clays this past weekend and i used the same recipe for both crimps. i almost always use 6 point because on my Lee Load all its the front precrimp position. When i got to the field all of the 8 point crimps had opened up to the point where they were losing pellets. I only made about 7 or 8 or them but none of the 6 pointers looked like they backed off at all. The only thing that makes sense is that 8 folds weakens the plastic enough to allow the compressed wad to open it up a bit. These were preprimed Cheditte hulls in case it matters and by all standards looked great coming off the press. And if anyone is familiar with the Loadall's you can bulge your hulls if you try to pack too much into them. None of these bulged on me and they ones that i shoot ran great. Thoughts? |
_________________ Character is more easily kept than recovered! |
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Posted:
Mon Mar 07, 2022 8:14 pm
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Joined: 21 Mar 2019
Posts: 523
Location: Texas
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What did you use to pre- crimp? I do both 6 and 8 point and don’t seem to notice any difference. Some of the tools out there to pre crimp new hulls just don’t work that well in my experience. The best of the best is the gaep. The BP crown crimp is not to my liking for new hulls. |
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Posted:
Mon Mar 07, 2022 9:22 pm
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Joined: 06 Aug 2007
Posts: 127
Location: Alabama
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I used the standard Lee Loadall crimp starter that came with the press. I was looking at the BP starter but they were out of stock last time I looked and I'm not sure you can use them on the Lee Loadall. I'm not familiar with that Gaep unit but now that you mention it i'll do some digging.
Thx...HL |
_________________ Character is more easily kept than recovered! |
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Posted:
Mon Mar 07, 2022 9:32 pm
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Joined: 21 Mar 2019
Posts: 523
Location: Texas
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All mine are mec reloaders and you can adapt the gaep to them,
Not sure about the Lee. If you need some additional help with gaep, send me a PM and I can give you an email to Charles in Italy. He will ship to you. Some of their products are listed on eBay, but are more expensive. |
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Posted:
Mon Mar 07, 2022 10:28 pm
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Joined: 06 Aug 2007
Posts: 127
Location: Alabama
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RGuill96971 wrote: |
All mine are mec reloaders and you can adapt the gaep to them,
Not sure about the Lee. If you need some additional help with gaep, send me a PM and I can give you an email to Charles in Italy. He will ship to you. Some of their products are listed on eBay, but are more expensive.
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very cool...thx...i'll let you know. |
_________________ Character is more easily kept than recovered! |
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Posted:
Tue Mar 08, 2022 5:14 am
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Joined: 04 Mar 2019
Posts: 1844
Location: Central ND
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I tried this a bunch of years ago when I had access to a pressure gun. I used 12 gauge hulls and applied both 6 and 8 point crimps at .060" to .065" deep. I believe they were new Activ hulls. No difference in ballistics.
I had always heard how superior an 8 pt crimp was......I guess not. I haven't applied an 8 pt crimp to a new hull again. |
_________________ Mark...You are entitled to your own opinion. You aren't entitled to your own facts. |
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Posted:
Tue Mar 08, 2022 6:12 am
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I've got a lot of old black Remington hulls (copper-colored brass) with the 8-point crimps and they seem on par with the 6-pointers, crimp tight. Also have a lot of the old green Rem. Express hulls with the 8-point and they are also good. Of course there are a few 6-pointers mixed in and rather than going through them all to separate them I use the MEC 12 gauge smooth crimp starter and both types crimp up nicely as they should. |
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Posted:
Tue Mar 08, 2022 6:43 am
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Joined: 01 Oct 2007
Posts: 962
Location: Minnesota
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Been reloading since 1968. If there’s a difference in strength between 6 and 8 point crimps, I’m not aware of it. |
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Posted:
Tue Mar 08, 2022 8:00 am
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Joined: 24 Jul 2016
Posts: 548
Location: Ohio
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Try doing the final crimp 3 times. Rotate the shell 1/3 turn each time. |
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Posted:
Tue Mar 08, 2022 11:06 am
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Joined: 06 Aug 2007
Posts: 127
Location: Alabama
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Ohio Wirehair wrote: |
Try doing the final crimp 3 times. Rotate the shell 1/3 turn each time.
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Interesting you mention that...I got into that habit with the Lee press to make sure of a tight crimp...I can also increase pressure nominally doing it that way. However, I did the same thing on the 8 point crimps i made. Now I'm wondering if maybe the 8 point crimp increases the plastic material in the shot cup enough to get it going and then the memory of the plastic takes over. I'm watching the 6 point crimps to see if they eventually start to open up...I may have been compressing them too much.
Thanks to all...
HL |
_________________ Character is more easily kept than recovered! |
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Posted:
Tue Mar 08, 2022 12:47 pm
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Joined: 08 Feb 2009
Posts: 1311
Location: Western WA
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Since the crimp is basically an accordion fold around the case mouth, more folds will be shallower than fewer folds (I am referring here to the depth of the folds, not the crimp punch depth). A deeper fold crimp will be stronger than a shallow fold. On the other hand, a shallow fold crimp will hold more shot than a deep fold crimp.
The perimeter of the mouth of a 16 ga case is about 2.1”, so the folds of a six point crimp will be roughly .175” deep in the center of the crimp. The folds of an eight point crimp will be .131” deep. This suggests that the six fold crimp might be a third stronger than a eight fold crimp.
My own experience is eight fold crimps will open more easily than six fold crimps if the crimp punch depth is the same. However if you increase the crimp punch depth of an eight fold crimp it will be almost as strong as a six fold crimp.
V/R
B. |
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