16ga.com ~ View topic

Joined: 31 Jan 2013 Posts: 152 Location: San Diego

I'm tired of tea spooning 2 pinto beans into each wad. I'm thinking corn meal, air soft pellets, or tumbler media might meter through a powder measure. Corn meal might swell if damp, air soft pellets are pretty big and not bio-degradable, some kind of tumbler media might work.

I've already discarded the ideas of spices like Coriander and mustard seeds, too expensive.

Bird seed maybe?

Ideas? Discussion?

Joined: 04 Mar 2019 Posts: 1846 Location: Central ND

Possibly using a wad that offers a better wad column height?

Or using 24 gauge card wad(s) in the bottom of the wad you are using?

Joined: 16 Jul 2015 Posts: 2126 Location: Hudson,Wy

I just drop a spent primer in the wad before dispensing shot and call it good. Just lift the press handle, drop it in the wad and go back to normal procedure of dropping the shot charge. Biodegradable? They do eventually rust away.

Of course, the best solution is to use a wad that doesn't need fillers when possible. I don't like using fillers but it's a necessary evil when loading 5/8 oz. in a 16 ga.

As far as corn meal, Cream of Wheat, and other fine media is concerned, realize that you are going to end up with a buffered or partially buffered load since the filler will settle in between the pellets.

This leads to two problems. The media settling in between the pellets with time and handling causes it to no longer act as a filler and crimps want to cave in. If enough is used, you do indeed end up with a buffered load with chamber pressures rising 1,000-2,500 psi.

Ground up corn cob or walnut media may work if coarse enough. However, by time you take enough time and effort to remove the hull from the press, use a powder measure, then put it back in the press, you could have just dropped a pair of lima beans in. Not sure why you use the teaspoon, I would just pour the beans in to a small bowl and set it next to the press where you can easily pick them up with your fingers.

One other option is to stack wads. I've done this in long cases like 3 1/2" 10 ga. I've used the lower portion of an SP10 under a complete SP10 to get proper stack height. The only bad thing is that you use two wads for one load, but...if you have access to once fired wads by picking them up when shooting clay targets over a clean area, you can recycle them.

Joined: 31 Jan 2013 Posts: 152 Location: San Diego

Guys, after 60 years of hard work, my hands and fingers don't like to count beans. Arthritis + pseudo-gout, on to of natural stiffness- I couldn't do the cub scout salute. Add a couple broken knuckles- I never liked being bullied.

Right wads? Triple the price and exorbitant shipping for small quantity. We need to work out an option.

Currently I am using a loading block with the wads in it. I drop the beans into the wads en masse. Then the wads are nicely lined up for picking up and inserting into the wad holder of my Hornady 266. (Wyo, why put wads into the machine just to take them out to insert beans?)

So, a loading block under a powder measure seems easy. Just the filler to determine.

Or should I take a giant leap backward to stacked loads and roll crimps? Oh my aching knuckles...

Joined: 04 Mar 2019 Posts: 1846 Location: Central ND

I see your POV. I would go with flax seed, rice etc. Something that can't become buffer and raise chamber pressures without you knowing. Corncob might be OK, but the factories use flax seed. Cheap, light and will go through a powder measure.

Joined: 31 Jan 2013 Posts: 152 Location: San Diego

[quote="MSM2019"...the factories use flax seed. ....[/quote]
um, wah? Who does?

{eta, EMI, expensive loads. I doubt they use a tea spoon Very Happy

}

But sounds good, the healthy foods store may even have them in their bulk bins.

Member Joined: 15 Mar 2007 Posts: 601 Location: Virginia

I find a 28-gauge thin overshot card cures a lot of crimp woes. Just drop it on top of the shot at the crimp starter station. OTOH, I've also used 1/2" 28-gauge fiber wad inside SG-16 wad cups to get a good stack with 3/4 oz loads. Gives a nice cloud of floating debris that looks like you hit a bird.

Joined: 04 Mar 2019 Posts: 1846 Location: Central ND

The factories use flax seed in some non-toxic loads especially with tungsten.

Joined: 31 Jan 2013 Posts: 152 Location: San Diego

Joined: 31 Jan 2013 Posts: 152 Location: San Diego

And a point against pinto beams- I shot one round of 25 Clays, 30 shots +/-, 6 shells were leaking shot due to crimps collapsing. I know they weren't that way when I boxed them up a couple months ago. Either the beans collapsed or the shot migrated down around the beans.

Airsoft pellets do come in biodegradeable, just check Amazon or similar. I have been recently considering swapping to Airsoft pellets just for the size consistency. They come in .2 gram which amounts to about 3 grains.

I currently use popcorn, but that does not work well in powder bottles due to the inconsistency, so I have gotten used to picking up 3-5 kernels & placing them over the shot at the crimp start station before grabbing a wad at the shot drop station. That tends to make a spreader, learned that from reading a Gordon Guillion interview.

I believe a decent short grain rice could flow through the tubes rather well, but rice has a tendency to absorb moisture so I think it would expand over time. But your powder would stay nice & dry Laughing

Flaxseed is intriguing, I may have to look into that, could possibly set some up on the Jr to drop after the shot station then back to the 650 for finish crimp, or use a powder measure.

Joined: 16 Jul 2015 Posts: 2126 Location: Hudson,Wy

Since you want to do the powder measure routine, I think flax seed is your best choice...at least until the gun range outlaws it for spreading "invasive flowers"! I joke about it, but nothing would surprise me anymore. I thought about styrofoam beads, but they take forever to break down in the sun, blow everywhere in the wind, and the static charge would make metering them impossible.

Flax seed can be placed under the shot charge with no risk of plugging the ram tube. I imagine that just dispensing on top of the shot charge would work fine though, not much pattern disruption would come from them filtering back through the shot charge after muzzle exit.

Joined: 31 Jan 2013 Posts: 152 Location: San Diego

Flax seeds, about $4/lb at the first place I tried. Meters so easily through the powder measure I was sure it did anything- I was expecting some kind of crunch/cutting feel. I used the measure with the bigger/rfle diameter plunger. Set at 15, it drops about a gram. I loaded half a dozen, just fine. I may cut it down a little, 12? So less than a penny per shell, and no tea spooning.

CB0078-16 and CB100-16, both need filler for 1oz in cheddites, fiocchi, and herters. But at least they seal 18.5g 700x into the powder cup.

Wow . . . I cannot believe the machinations some folks go through to fit a load. So some are going to put a whole extra gram of "stuff" in the shell. That's 3 to 4 percent more ejecta, depending on your shot charge (28.35 grams per ounce). That means 6 to 9 percent more energy out the muzzle, which necessitates 6 to 9 percent more peak pressure in the shell if exterior balllistics remain the same (muzzle velocity). Flax seed might or might not act like buffer and increase pellet-to-pellet friction (and maybe pellet-bore friction if no shot protector sleeve is used) but it is mass, and so it will add to peak pressure if muzzle velocity is kept the same. I suppose no one is going to get hurt by a 6 to 9 percent pressure increase. Kinda puts into perspective the thinking of some low pressure enthusiasts who worry about pressure differences or variations of a 1000 psi or so, though, doesn't it.

Joined: 04 Mar 2019 Posts: 1846 Location: Central ND

Tony,

It's flax seed. It can't get in between the pellets the way buffer does to cause the chamber pressure to rise.

1 gram equals 15.4324 grains. That is pretty much a nothing when it comes to raising chamber pressure.

You remember the old rule of thumb. +/- .5 grains of powder and +/- 20 grains of shot is the permissible deviation from published reloading data.