16ga.com ~ View topic

*Last edited by grouser47 on Fri Feb 02, 2007 11:16 am; edited 1 time in total*

I have come down with a terrible virus Very Happy

. I need a 16 ga A5 to add to my 16 gauge collection

1) There is a standard A5 locally circa 1950 with 2.75 chambers 28"bl with no rib, has been reblued with a very rich deep blue. The stock has been refinished (poorly) at some time with most of the checkering sanded off. This dosen't really bother me as I can re do the stock & recut checker myself. Have not weighed the gun but it doesn't feel overly heavy. What should it weigh? The asking price is $400.00 Canadian $ ---$335.00 US $.
2) I also have an oppertunity on a "Sweet 16". Is in excellent condition but has a small scratch on the bl near the sight. 28" bl, solid rib, gold trigger, made 1963. Owner says that it weights 7.25 lbs -- measured on a kitchen digital scale. Is this heavy for a sweet 16? The 1st one did not seem that heavy. Asking price is $800.00 Canadian --- $675.00 US$.
Their both choked full and I will try the Standard onSunday at the club which will allow me to weight it properly.
Comments on price and weights would be greatly appreciated.
Cheers

Member Joined: 09 Dec 2005 Posts: 989 Location: Las Vegas

Others more knowledgable will weigh in but 7.25 lbs sounds heavy for a sweet. Mine (26" plain barrell) is closer to 6 1/2.

Matt

....sounds heavy to me for the sweet 16, too....but the prices sure sound fair......

b'gun

Member Joined: 18 Nov 2005 Posts: 398 Location: S Fl

Grouser,
I have 3 Sweets in my records, all in original configuration and all plain barrels.

1. 1954 27.5" Mod = 6.98 lbs
2. 1956 25.5" IC = 6.84
3. 1958 25.5" IC = 6.72

It's not unusual for a plain barrel Std to weigh less or the same as a ribbed Sweet, all other things being equal.

Pete

Member Joined: 25 Jul 2006 Posts: 781

Plain barrel Sweets with 26" barrels usually come in at 6 lb 10 oz. They vary based on wood density. Mostly.

The difference between a 26" plain barrel and a 28" is 2 oz, so figure an oz. per inch.

A vent rib adds 4 oz on a 28" barrel, a solid rib adds more, but I don't have the figures in front of me.

The weight difference between a Sweet and Standard with the same barrel is generally 10 oz.

From a collector standpoint a Sweet with a solid rib may be attractive, but for me it's counter intuitive. Why hang all that weight on the front of a gun that was special because of it's light weight, balance and fast handling?

Both guns sound fairly valued, they will both be great shooters. I own and shoot and love both. But for my money I'd favor the gun that has it's original metal finish. (I suspect the reblue is caustic blue, not the nice subtle blue/gray, slow rust bluing that was originally on the gun)

Jeff

BTW, look for any buffing away of the engraving on the re blued gun. It's the aggressive metal prep that ruins many re blued guns.

Picked up the "standard" today -- it has a 26" full bl -- I will try it Sunday at a few clays -- tons of grease in the spring tube area so I will have a messy cleaning job. I shoot my semi's dry for the most part. There is a good scale at the club so I will have a accurate weight. Checked the S# and fpund it to be 1947 vintage with 2 & 3/4 chamber. It has ACIER SPECIAL marked on the bl. I would expect that this refers to the quality of the steel?
Cheers.
John (grouser47)

Joined: 21 Dec 2006 Posts: 40 Location: Memphis, TN

Beautiful gun.

If you're talking about the return spring in the stock, I believe it is supposed to be greased, to some degree anyway. The recoil spring should have a light coat of oil, as I recall. Feel free to contradict me - I know there are plenty here with more A5 knowledge than me.

The spring on the magazine tube was really dirty and coated with heavy black grease and foreign bodies. I was concerned that it would affect the guns ability to function in the very cold temperatures we have been getting of late. I cleaned the coil spring and the tube 7 lubed with Break Free.

Member Joined: 25 Jul 2006 Posts: 781

The action spring, in the tube in the stock should be cleaned and lightly lubed with a fine grade of oil. Many of them are gummed up badly and need cleaning.

This is nice looking wood, too bad an idiot took sandpaper to the checkering. That can be redone. However the metal looks to be permanantly damaged.

I could be wrong, but based on the pictures the same idiot may have used a buffing wheel on the metal and caustic blued it. Look closely at the Fabrique Nationale lettering, it looks shallow and washed out by buffing, there appear to be divots around the screw heads. In addition, where is the engraving? Was that all buffed off too? The old grade 1 Browning Auto-5 (no engraving) was discontinued in 1931. Could this gun be older than thought, but it's 2 3/4" chambers right?

The other possibility would be that this is not a Browning (US) model. It is likely a Fabrique Nationale model made for non Browning markets. They may have continued to make an non engraved model for other buyers...
That would also confirm the Acier Special, designation on the barrel. Based on that there is probably no Browning Arms address on the barrel.

Check and let us know!

Jeff

Yep it had been buffed and you can see some marks. The stamping on the bl is buffed out but the stamping on the receiver remains fairly sharp. Indeed it is not a Browning and was originally bought in Austria. The owner said that it was a 1947 gun and if it were a Browning the serial # would confirm this. That would be about the time that they started making 2 & 3/4 ". The stamp on the bl does say 70mm -- 2&3/4". I assume that not having the Browning name in all likelyhood affects the value? The value to me is as a shooter not a collector. However what I may pay for it may reflect the lack of the Browning name?
Cheers.

Member Joined: 18 Nov 2005 Posts: 398 Location: S Fl

It would be worth measuring the chamber. The 70 mark could be the barrel length.
In your 1st post you said the Std had a 28" barrel. They were made to a metric dimension of 70 cm.
70/2.54 = 27.56 and 27.5" was a standard barrel length.

Pete

Measured it - 2.75"

Member Joined: 25 Jul 2006 Posts: 781

The 70 and 2 3/4" marks are typical for a non US gun. the barrel length was never marked on the barrels.

Serial numbers were consecutive for all guns, including the ones marked Browning and the ones that were not. That was part of the agreement between John Moses and FN, so he could insure that he got his $'s per gun.

The lack of Browning name won't substantially affect the value. However the buffing job has a big affect for most saavy buyers. But don't fret, at the price you quoted it's an ok buy, but don't expect the value to climb.

Do as you said and rechecker the stock and refinish the wood and you'll have a heck of a nice shooter.

Jeff

Here's alink to a picture of the sweet sixteen I brought home last week.http://good-times.webshots.com/photo/2986586240099813036ketfPX