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Aurelio Corso
PostPosted: Wed Mar 22, 2023 9:14 am  Reply with quote



Joined: 08 May 2018
Posts: 196

Saw one on guns international that sold in one day at 5lbs. 11ounces with 1/4 cast off would have been perfect for me.I was wondering if they were of the same quality as the other prewar sauer.
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Lloyd3
PostPosted: Wed Mar 22, 2023 9:53 am  Reply with quote



Joined: 17 Jan 2014
Posts: 1365
Location: Denver, Colorado

The Knockabouts I've seen and handled have all been pretty decent. I'm guessing pre-war would be a little better but....none have been disappointing IMHO. If cared for and properly used over the years, I'd think they'd be fine upland guns.

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Pine Creek/Dave
PostPosted: Wed Mar 22, 2023 4:50 pm  Reply with quote



Joined: 17 Mar 2017
Posts: 2787
Location: Endless Mountains of Pa

AC,
Nothing wrong with the Sauer & Sons knockabout guns, good quality guns for sure. However nothing matches their Pre War Best Side Lock Double guns. The very best of these Sauer Guns was made before WWI. If you can get the Sauer 16 gauge Knockabout box lock gun, for reasonable money, it should be a good gun for you to upland hunt with.
The quality is definitely higher than most of the modern Turkish made guns on the market today. However what I recommend is saving a little more money and purchasing one of the Sauer Best 16 Gauge Side Lock double guns, they are simply fantastic, and if you are lucky you might run across a 16 gauge Sauer Grouse Gun built on their 20 Gauge frame, one serious Best German Grouse gun for sure.

all the best,

Pine Creek/Dave
L.C. Smith Man

Our early 1800's Sauer Best Side Lock 16 Gauge Grouse Gun, built on their 20 gauge frame.

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Pine Creek Grouse Dog Trainers
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Aurelio Corso
PostPosted: Wed Mar 22, 2023 5:37 pm  Reply with quote



Joined: 08 May 2018
Posts: 196

The knockabout’s were prewar 1 but look to be a lower price point kind of plain very little engraving no side clips or cross bolt but still a sauer and would have bought it if it was not sold.Dave I agree I let a real beauty prewar sauer go a couple of months ago cause of no cast off.
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Old colonel2
PostPosted: Wed Mar 22, 2023 8:05 pm  Reply with quote



Joined: 07 Jun 2020
Posts: 224

The Belgian made knockabout I used to own was very well made. Much better than the modern Turkish field grades. It is likely the Turks will improve their quality, though I am unsure if the market will accept a much higher price point

The Sauer made knockabout gun were likewise well made guns.
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Pine Creek/Dave
PostPosted: Wed Mar 22, 2023 11:49 pm  Reply with quote



Joined: 17 Mar 2017
Posts: 2787
Location: Endless Mountains of Pa

AC,
With high grade Walnut wood, even if the gun is very old a good stock maker can still put the cast in the stock that you want. Next time you run across a good J.P. Sauer double gun that you like with zero cast, you might consider the purchase, if the gun has real nice Walnut wood.

all the best,

Pine Creek/Dave
L.C. Smith Man

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Pine Creek Grouse Dog Trainers
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canvasback
PostPosted: Thu Mar 23, 2023 1:59 pm  Reply with quote



Joined: 12 Mar 2012
Posts: 684
Location: Ontario

I have a pre WWI Sauer sidelock, field grade-ish, but not a Knockabout. However, I've looked closely at Knockabouts and believe them to be very similar in quality.

I bought this gun because i was at my gunsmith's one day a few years ago and he had the lock plates off my Purdey and he was walking me through, in particular, the self opening mechanism. While doing that he said "wait a minute" and pulled an old beater sidelock out of a cupboard. The stock was broken and it had clearly seen better days. He popped the locks off and started showing me how, even though the mechanism of the Sauer was far simpler than the Purdey, the fit and finish was about equal. The Sauer locks were hidden works of art.

Those Sauer sidelocks come in two action sizes, near as i can figure out. Most are the larger action and result in 12 gauge guns in the 7 pound range, give or take. The smaller size seems to be used on some 12 ga (like mine) and also the 16 gauge guns. For my 12 gauge it means a 29" barrels gun with a 14 1/2" LOP is in the 6 1/4 pound range.

Here it is as I bought it: [/url]

And here it is mid way through it's rehab:
[/url]

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1921 Pieper 29" 6 lbs 10 oz
2003 Citori White Lightning 26" 6 lbs 10 oz
1932 Husqvarna 310AS 29.5" 6 lbs 7 oz
1925 Ferlach 29" 6 lbs 7 oz
1923 Greifelt 29" 6 lbs 1 oz
1928 Simson 29.5" 6 lbs
1893 Lindner Daly FW 28” 5 lb 11oz
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Aurelio Corso
PostPosted: Thu Mar 23, 2023 2:21 pm  Reply with quote



Joined: 08 May 2018
Posts: 196

Wow that’s beautiful!!!!!
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canvasback
PostPosted: Thu Mar 23, 2023 2:36 pm  Reply with quote



Joined: 12 Mar 2012
Posts: 684
Location: Ontario

Aurelio Corso wrote:
Wow that’s beautiful!!!!!


Thanks. It's not a 16 gauge but that action is a svelte as any vintage 16 gauge I have ever handled. I'll post a pic when it's all done.

I am constantly on the lookout now for either another small action 12 or a 16 gauge.

BTW it's my experience that just about any German gun from 1890 to 1914 is incredibly well made, regardless of the amount of exterior ornamentation.

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1921 Pieper 29" 6 lbs 10 oz
2003 Citori White Lightning 26" 6 lbs 10 oz
1932 Husqvarna 310AS 29.5" 6 lbs 7 oz
1925 Ferlach 29" 6 lbs 7 oz
1923 Greifelt 29" 6 lbs 1 oz
1928 Simson 29.5" 6 lbs
1893 Lindner Daly FW 28” 5 lb 11oz
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canvasback
PostPosted: Fri Mar 24, 2023 5:52 am  Reply with quote



Joined: 12 Mar 2012
Posts: 684
Location: Ontario

Pine Creek/Dave wrote:
AC,
Nothing wrong with the Sauer & Sons knockabout guns, good quality guns for sure. However nothing matches their Pre War Best Side Lock Double guns. The very best of these Sauer Guns was made before WWI. If you can get the Sauer 16 gauge Knockabout box lock gun, for reasonable money, it should be a good gun for you to upland hunt with.
The quality is definitely higher than most of the modern Turkish made guns on the market today. However what I recommend is saving a little more money and purchasing one of the Sauer Best 16 Gauge Side Lock double guns, they are simply fantastic, and if you are lucky you might run across a 16 gauge Sauer Grouse Gun built on their 20 Gauge frame, one serious Best German Grouse gun for sure.

all the best,

Pine Creek/Dave
L.C. Smith Man]


Dave, all Pre WWI Sauer built Knockabouts were sidelocks. In 1904 VL& D switched to sourcing the Knockabout from Francotte of Belgium, and all the Francotte Knockabouts were boxlocks.

_________________
1921 Pieper 29" 6 lbs 10 oz
2003 Citori White Lightning 26" 6 lbs 10 oz
1932 Husqvarna 310AS 29.5" 6 lbs 7 oz
1925 Ferlach 29" 6 lbs 7 oz
1923 Greifelt 29" 6 lbs 1 oz
1928 Simson 29.5" 6 lbs
1893 Lindner Daly FW 28” 5 lb 11oz
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Pine Creek/Dave
PostPosted: Fri Mar 24, 2023 12:33 pm  Reply with quote



Joined: 17 Mar 2017
Posts: 2787
Location: Endless Mountains of Pa

canvasback,

I knew that the change to the Box Lock was made, however I never knew just when, thanks for the info! Good historical info thanks. I actually thought all the knockabout guns were made after the WWI and mostly after WWII.

all the best,

Pine Creek/Dave
L.C. Smith Man

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Pine Creek Grouse Dog Trainers
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canvasback
PostPosted: Fri Mar 24, 2023 1:25 pm  Reply with quote



Joined: 12 Mar 2012
Posts: 684
Location: Ontario

Pine Creek/Dave wrote:
canvasback,

I knew that the change to the Box Lock was made, however I never knew just when, thanks for the info! Good historical info thanks. I actually thought all the knockabout guns were made after the WWI and mostly after WWII.

all the best,

Pine Creek/Dave
L.C. Smith Man


No problem Dave. What's interesting to me is that VL&D picked two such great makers to make the guns. I have a Francotte Knockabout in 28 gauge and its a beautifully made little gun.

Just got this update on my Sauer restock.
[/url]

_________________
1921 Pieper 29" 6 lbs 10 oz
2003 Citori White Lightning 26" 6 lbs 10 oz
1932 Husqvarna 310AS 29.5" 6 lbs 7 oz
1925 Ferlach 29" 6 lbs 7 oz
1923 Greifelt 29" 6 lbs 1 oz
1928 Simson 29.5" 6 lbs
1893 Lindner Daly FW 28” 5 lb 11oz
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Pine Creek/Dave
PostPosted: Fri Mar 24, 2023 1:45 pm  Reply with quote



Joined: 17 Mar 2017
Posts: 2787
Location: Endless Mountains of Pa

canvasback,
Francotte built some serious double guns, and has not been given the recognition he deserves for his talent. Please post a picture of your 28 gauge gun, would love to see it.

Real nice custom sock on your Sauer double gun! Nice choice on the wood.

all the best,

Pine Creek/Dave
L.C. Smith Man

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"L.C. Smith America's Best" - John Houchins

Pine Creek Grouse Dog Trainers
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canvasback
PostPosted: Fri Mar 24, 2023 1:50 pm  Reply with quote



Joined: 12 Mar 2012
Posts: 684
Location: Ontario

You know Dave, I think that is so true about Francotte not really getting their due. I managed to miss them for about the first 12 years of my SxS journey. But had a friend in Duluth who had a couple and started to look into them more. then had the opportunity to pick up a couple 28 ga Francottes. The Knockabout pictured here plus a model 14 i sold to a friend. Both were mid 1920s guns in amazing condition. Same family since new. The last 40 plus years by a husband and wife in Idaho until they decided to retire from hunting. Both in their 80's and orIginally from upstate NY.

Here's the one I kept. 26" barrels, just over 4 1/2 pounds.
[/url]

_________________
1921 Pieper 29" 6 lbs 10 oz
2003 Citori White Lightning 26" 6 lbs 10 oz
1932 Husqvarna 310AS 29.5" 6 lbs 7 oz
1925 Ferlach 29" 6 lbs 7 oz
1923 Greifelt 29" 6 lbs 1 oz
1928 Simson 29.5" 6 lbs
1893 Lindner Daly FW 28” 5 lb 11oz
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Pine Creek/Dave
PostPosted: Fri Mar 24, 2023 2:32 pm  Reply with quote



Joined: 17 Mar 2017
Posts: 2787
Location: Endless Mountains of Pa

canvasback,

Now that sir is a real nice Francotte 28 gauge Box Lock double gun, I would put that gun in my double gun collection for sure. The quality of the guns is just fantastic, nothing like it made today for under $5,000.

Real nice Grouse gun for sure!

all the best,

Pine Creek/Dave
L.C. Smith Man

_________________
"L.C. Smith America's Best" - John Houchins

Pine Creek Grouse Dog Trainers
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