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I made up some loads and shot some skeet today. I had made up 3 boxes of 3/4oz & one of 7/8 oz, plus 5 of each for the chrony. The 7/8 and one 3/4 as well as the 10 extra went in the freezer at 0 degrees overnight. At the club temps were in the upper twenties to just above freezing, the cold soaked loads went in the freezer. I shot the first round with the cold soaked 3/4 oz, then the second with the 7/8 oz. About half of each sounded off, and boy did I take some ribbing for that. So there was very little difference between the two. Shot 2 more rounds with the unsoaked loads, no funny sounds ( but the damage was done, I’ll never live that down, lol). My score did improve with the warm loads but I doubt the temp contributed to that. First round was a 20, Last round was a 23 with IM/LM chokes.

Ran the last 10 through the chrony, of course none sounded off. They had been soaking for the whole 3 hours plus the overnight so I expected more odd ones, but nothing.

Fiocchi hull reloaded many times, Ch209, 16 gr TW, DR16, 28 ga NC, 7/8 oz magnum lead:
1231, 1235, 1228, 1223, 1194
Avg 1222, ES 41.20, SD 16.34

Same load with 3/4 oz:
1219, 1282, 1221, 1289, 1266
Avg 1266, ES 70.31, SD 27.45

Summertime 3/4 oz:
1295, 1301, 1270, 1308, 1242, 1276
Avg 1282,ES 65.85, SD 24.43

Interestingly, I had done a 5/8 oz load in the summer with 1 less grain of powder, its SD was 9.89 with an average of 1276. I might go back to that and tweak, but it takes 2 nitro cards which slows me down reloading.

Joined: 04 Mar 2019 Posts: 2009 Location: Central ND

Citori16,

As far as I can see the 3/4 oz. load isn't a good warm weather load. The 24 FPS SD and 65 FPS ES are not good. These are limits that I got from Tom Armbrust years ago, as follows - SD 14 FPS max and ES 35 FPS max at 70 degrees. Those numbers will open up a little when you cold soak the loads, but they shouldn't double. The velocity should not fall off more than 5%.

This is what I know....there aren't as many good loads out there as are printed. If you stick to the numbers I gave you, they help, but they do not insure a great cold weather load. You have to check each load.

I get some flack for my loads, because they are normally fairly robust, but there is a method to the madness. The only powder I can't get to behave in the cold is W572. With 1 oz. and 1 1/8 oz. loads right off the Hodgdon website, I got only one good load.

The 7/8 oz. load I have using 16.0 grains of 700-X, Winchester 209, Federal hull and DR 16 wad. Precision did the testing and got SD - 11 FPS and ES 30 FPS. Average velocity was 1,260 FPS.

The 1 1/8 oz. load I sent to Tom Armbrust using 3N37 powder went SD 8 FPS - ES 21 FPS. Average velocity was 1,288 FPS.

I know that everyone is all of a sudden recoil conscious, but ya' gotta put the components to work. If the pressures aren't at least 8,000 PSI the chances are not in your favor of having a good load, especially as the temps drop.

Ball powders can be finicky, because they tend, (emphasis on tend) to be harder to ignite. Double base flake are better. Single base flake are the easiest.

Mark,

Yes, I agree on the 3/4 oz load, it isn’t optimal. Not even close. I aim for those low SD numbers but I apparently need to develop this load more. I’m only into the first bottle of TW with the DR16. A couple years ago I was using the SG16 with TW but I didn’t test as much as I do now, not that I gather much more data. I put up the summertime numbers for reference. I found it interesting that it was consistently inconsistent.

I think some testing by Precision is definitely in order. Likely I will use some once fired Cheddites for more consistency. Regardless, I think today shows these loads are affected by cold weather, though hopefully due to the light payload vs powder charge.

Joined: 04 Mar 2019 Posts: 2009 Location: Central ND

Here are some loads I had tested back when the DR16 was a new wad.

The first load is a nice 3/4 oz. load. The rest I was trying to get as hot as possible and then back them off a little. The last load HATED the Winchester 209 primer. The second load wasn't wild about that primer either. I have used the 1st and 3rd loads just as they are.

The point is don't be afraid to push the load, you can always back it off if there is more recoil than you want.

Mike Campbell told me to send in the loads as close to MAP as possible, you can always back them off. Instead of sending them in conservative and never knowing what the upper limit is, or spend more money then you need to.

Member Joined: 30 Nov 2011 Posts: 1754 Location: Minnesota

For powder does the first load say 18.0 American Select?
For the Universal powder loads, How much would I need to back off the charge to get to the more traditional 1200 or less fps? Would they still be "good loads"?
I dont have any Fed 209s but I have cheds and w209s so why didnt that one load like Win209s?

Joined: 04 Mar 2019 Posts: 2009 Location: Central ND

Savage16,

Yes 18.0 grains American Select.

There is no 'common sense' reason why the load didn't like Winchester 209's. Sometimes it just works out that way. It is one of the things that you find out when developing loads. That's why swapping primers is a guessing game. Sometimes any primer will work, other times only one or two or none will work. There are plenty of loads where Universal and Winchester 209's are a good match, these two loads, it didn't work out that way.

1,200 FPS with these loads? Probably 4 grains. The only reason I used Universal was to reliably cycle my 1100. I really don't think that at 1,200 FPS they are going to be good loads, but who knows. I don't have any Universal to try it out. I have since learned that I can get that 1100 to cycle with smaller amounts of 700-X in 7/8 oz. loads @ 1,260 FPS. 700-X, Green Dot, International IMO would be better choices for 7/8 oz. loads

Mark,

That American Select load is great. I’ve been using that as my “calibration/warm-up” load prior to matches due to the SD. I have 4 boxes of those loads left plus about 2 more boxes worth of powder in the keg. Not sure when we’ll get more, sadly. I keep looking for that, 700x and any of the Clays powders.

If nothing else, the lack of powder has been spurring some deep dives into load development.

Joined: 09 Mar 2016 Posts: 780 Location: Mn.

Joined: 04 Mar 2019 Posts: 2009 Location: Central ND

Citori16,

That American Select load is a nice load. I just don't use it a lot. It even cycles my 1100 if I run it wet. I developed it for a couple of older shotguns I have to reduce the recoil on the old wood.

I kinda got pissed at DownRange when they didn't make the DR16 for several years, but kept saying the check's in the mail. I went to other wads/loads. But I might go back to that load if American Select is ever available again.

Shot 3 rounds today after leaving the loads out in the truck overnight. A good number of bloopers. Did not think to pick up the wads to see if they broke, but I agree, it’s probably not the wads. After talking a look at the crimps, I think they are a little shallow, especially after the work I did on the press. I also will put a notch in my micrometer, have been using a steel pocket ruler.

Just a follow up, got the crimps to ~.070 from about .050, shot a couple nights of skeet. Temps have been hovering around freezing. I had a lot fewer bloopers but there were still a couple. Hopefully get some time between a skeet match and the weather to make some up this weekend for Precision to test, will be hiking the charge up to 18 gr. Likely will be swapping to Cheddite hulls as that's what I have the most of.