16ga.com ~ View topic

Joined: 17 Jan 2014 Posts: 1712 Location: Denver, Colorado

Just signed-up for a clean little Skimin & Wood 2-inch gun. Almost identical dimensions to my Brummy BLE 16 (28-tubes, 14 1/2 lOP) but... this one is a 12 that weighs 5lbs1(!).

I've wanted one of these highly-specialized English doubles ever since I held my first one (probably 25-30 years ago now) but could never quite justify it to myself. These rather uncommon doubles have always drawn premium-prices because of their attraction to upland bird hunters (especially the ruffed grouse crowd). Ammo has also seemingly always been a challenge, unless you are a creative reloader. RST has mostly resolved that but...they are now pretty pricey.

Oh well...delayed gratification only serves you for so-long in this life, eh?

I am a bit concerned by the extremely low weight but I already own and occasionally (& successfully) hunt a 28 gauge that is 5 1/4 lbs so...this should be allright too, don't you think? The ones I've personally handled to this date have all been wonderfully balanced (as long as the tubes were long enough for me, many are only 26-inch, but this one is thankfully 28-inch [& with good walls, yet another challenge with these particular guns]).

Great chokes, excellent & mostly original condition (lots of color case remaining, good wood) and a great name! (Skimin & Wood perfected the 2-inch 12 concept and built these guns for almost all the other makers of that period [1930s], they then just put their names on them).

Really looking forward to getting it here and then trying it out this coming Fall (which isn't all that far away now). Counting down the days...

Joined: 22 May 2020 Posts: 357 Location: Ky

Congrats! Post some pics when you can

Lloyd3,

Great purchase of a really fine 12 gauge Grouse gun, have fun hunting with her!
Your 16 gauge guns will understand the light 12! Mine have.

all the best,

Pine Creek/Dave
L.C. Smith/Westley Richards Man

Joined: 17 Jan 2014 Posts: 1712 Location: Denver, Colorado

Filled in at the shop yesterday and got a chance to research this little 2-inch gun. Very early production, likely 1930. I even might have found a case for it....all good omens, right?

Joined: 12 Sep 2010 Posts: 2014 Location: Maine

Good luck with it. If you're shooting a light 28 well, you already know the biggest issue - light guns are great for snap shooting but are hard to shoot deliberately because they bounce.
Good luck on the case.... A fine gun like this deserves a classy case.

Joined: 17 Jan 2014 Posts: 1712 Location: Denver, Colorado

Dave:

This gun will be a voyage of discovery for me. Six pounds has historically been my sweet spot but...if this dainty little birdgun throws better & fuller (as advertised!) patterns and fits me like I'm hoping it will then maybe, just maybe.

These 2-inch guns are also famous for hard recoil (which I'm largely insensitive to at this point) but it'll be well worth it if it still kills like a 12. Subgauge guns are great fun and a good compromise (16s are arguably the best compromise & in so-many ways) but...darn it, 12s usually kill stone dead for me, they just do.

A sixteen is usually a better all-around choice in the uplands and for all the usual reasons (overall cost and then ammo availability being the biggest) but for my rather unique circumstance at our place way "up-nort" this gun seemingly has great potential.

I have even heard-tell of folks using them on walk-up pheasants(!) so... if that opportunity happens to come along this year as well, I've added a couple boxes of 5s into the flat of RST 6s and 7 1/2s I recently ordered, just in case.

Joined: 17 Mar 2007 Posts: 223

That sounds really cool, Lloyd.

Does the 2-inch 12 have a hard-recoiling reputation solely due to the light weight of the shotgun? Do 2-inch 12 shells have as much energy as a 2-3/4 inch shell? Waaaaay back in the day, thanks to many here, I bought the right wads and cut down the hulls to make (if memory serves) 2-1/2” 16 gauge shells, but I loaded them down and I think I used less shot than a standard shell, and I do seem to remember the recoil was less than a factory 2-3/4”.

I have never heard of this gun maker so pardon my ignorance.

I feel the same way as you about the 12: it just “gets it done.” Much as I hate to say it, carrying a 12 gives me a confidence that I don’t have with other gauges, and that includes the 16. 12’s…kill.

That said, most of my 12’s are heavy, barring the Ithaca Model 37 Fwt. I have also been looking for a lighter gun for the uplands. I went the other directiion in gauge, and recently ponied up for a 20 gauge Franchi Instinct SL. It’s very light, and seems to fit me well, judging from the trap and skeet rounds I’ve shot with it. I really do like it

I also recently bid on a 28 gauge Superposed!…, but I lost the Gun Broker auction.

Your new shotgun sounds like it checks all the boxes. Congrats on a great find. Hope it fits great and works out.

8mmFan

Joined: 17 Jan 2014 Posts: 1712 Location: Denver, Colorado

8mm Fan: Thankyou.

2-inch guns are probably bad recoilers for a number of reasons and most are fairly obvious, but the available American 2-inch shells are mostly all loaded for 15/16 of an ounce of shot and not the 3/4 ounce they were all proved for. I suspect that's a big part of it

2-inch 12s are almost unknown in this country. The gunshop I worked at part-time out here (for 12 years) specialized in these types of firearms so I got to handle plenty of them in that time. I'm guessing that unless you can reload for them, you're getting belted fairly regularly. Mind you, hunting ruffed grouse means far-more walking than shooting, so there's that. Its also not likely that I'll be breaking many clays with this one either, eh? A very special-use weapon and one I could never justify until now.

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Yes Loyd I think your 16ga guns will live with your 2" gun , there has been one in a local gun shop here that I have been doing really well to not buy, its by WJ Jeffery and in really good shape and shop even had 2" shells but I am all sorted so won't bother with it ,Im happy for you getting a nice light 12ga let us know how you get on with it .
Good shooting WJ.

Joined: 07 Jun 2020 Posts: 264

Duplicate

Joined: 07 Jun 2020 Posts: 264

Most guns have that new promise. Only time and use will tell how well you bond with it. Some guns feel just right off the rack, but in use do not cash that promise.

Then again it maybe a wand of death.

I still dream of the 2in 12. But the 5lb 4oz 24ga will have to fill that void for now.

BTW most 2in 12ga guns I have seen are proofed for 7/8oz, a couple for 1oz

Joined: 17 Jan 2014 Posts: 1712 Location: Denver, Colorado

Well....24-gauge stuff is pretty exotic IMHO. It all boils down to function for me, if it works well then I'll hunt it religiously. If it doesn't kill for me then...it's gone.

You're right btw, 7/8s is the normal proof for 2-inch guns, not 3/4 ounce (early stage dementia?).

This will be the newest gun I've purchased for some time now (trying to stay pre-1898 to avoid all the silliness here).

Joined: 17 Jan 2014 Posts: 1712 Location: Denver, Colorado

From a Vic Venters article in Shooting Sportsman:

Two-inch 12s were never made in great numbers; one niche seems to have been with walk-up red-grouse shooters in Scotland and northern England. After the ’30s the guns fell from favor, though in the post-war period London makers, particularly E.J. Churchill and Holland & Holland, continued to build a few “best”-quality 2" sidelocks. The inherent limitations of a light shot charge were part of the problem; thin barrels that could dent easily were another. Gunmaker Mark Crudgington of George Gibbs, Ltd., told me he has worked on or sold 21 two-inchers through the years and has found many to have wall thicknesses of .015" to .018", with one exhibiting .012" walls measured off of original bore dimensions. The light actions of 2" boxlocks also have proved prone to shooting loose, not surprising given the atrocious recoil modern British 2" cartridges generate.

Thankfully, RSTs are reportedly nowhere near as "hot" as the British variants.

The full article: https://shootingsportsman.com/short-shell-12-2-guns/

Joined: 19 Jan 2019 Posts: 365 Location: South Dakota

Interesting little gun especially with the 28” barrels.

You will enjoy it. It fills a special niche. Not really a daily shooter or dove gun.

Great conversation piece!

Joined: 17 Jan 2014 Posts: 1712 Location: Denver, Colorado

Thanks Bobby, appreciate it.

It will clearly be a conversation piece this Fall (for several of my associates) and it actually might become a daily gun on some of the longer grouse trails up in Minnesota (got a flat of RSTs for it here the other day) but... that of-course remains to be seen.

Now I'm hearing that Colorado's ban on semi-autos (effective here August 1st) is causing a run on such sales and will delay my FFL transfer of this gun for several days...

We now have the worst gun laws in this country. God help us.