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....has anybody ever had any success with Red Dot? I would like to see if it is possible to make some lower pressure 7/8 or 1 oz. loads with it.... but see few loads for 16 with it. I see it used for 12 and 20 some, but the pressures seem high.... anyone have any 16 experience with it successfully? I would want at least 1100 fps, and 9000 psi or lower....maybe it's just not possible with this stuff?? Is it just too hot?

britgun

Member Joined: 26 Apr 2005 Posts: 743

Yes, it is too hot. I think someone (maybe 16gg) talked about it for 3/4 oz loads, but it doesn't work for 7/8 oz if you're looking for low pressure. I worked up some very light loads of RD, sent them off to Tom Armbrust for pressure testing. In a black Rem hull, R-16 wad, 7/8 oz shot--11,300 psi with just 13.3 grains. Same load jumped about 1,000 psi with the only change being the old AA16 wad.

Joined: 13 Feb 2007 Posts: 98 Location: Illinois

Red Dot / PROMO is some hot stuff. I know of a few skeeter loads with it in 20 gauge but the pressure is around 11,000 and the loads are 3/4 oz.

For low pressure, I would go to Green Dot.

Member Joined: 08 Nov 2005 Posts: 3438 Location: Illinois

Leave the RD for the 12 ga trap shooters---Too many decent powders out there better suited for the 16 Wink

thanks, gents..... I should'a bought Unique....

I tried a few 5/8 ounce 16 ga loads with it, but i'd not use it for 3/4 ounce loads. It's probably safe for 3/4 oz. of shot at 1150 FPS or slower. However, Red dot tends to open patterns somewhat. I think the patterns might be a bit too open with it in a subgauge load this light. Green Dot is about perfect for both the 3/4 and 7/8 ounce loads I use.

I quit on the 16 gauge 5/8 ounce loads, although they would work ok for short range, low velocity loads for starlings and pests around a barn or a big yard in the country. Once a shot string becomes too short, its almost as bad as too long. I also have 5/8 oz. loads covered by the 28 ga and .410 for small bird hunting and for teaching smaller kids to shoot. They work great in either gauge.

Red Dot was commonly used in 16 gauge loads prior to 1960 iwhen using paper hulls and solid felt and cardboard wads. These old shells and wads were not near as efficient as plastic hulls and plastic wads. The pressure rise was considerably slower with these pretty much, obsolete materials. For today's reloading, Red Dot is too fast. So is Green Dot for 1 ounce loads for the same reason. Here, Unique and other similar powders are the best starting place.

Joined: 13 Feb 2007 Posts: 98 Location: Illinois

I think 3/4 ounce loads with Red Dot in 16 gauge would be achievable at 1200 FPS and still safe.

Here is a tested 20 gauge load achieving the same results:

20 GAUGE PROMO LITE
HULL: AA-HS or any Remington
SHOT WEIGHT: 11/16 (best) or 3/4 oz. (maximum) (Actual averages dropped by stock MEC charge bars: 11/16 oz. - 300 gr.; 3/4 oz. - 315 gr.)
SHOT SIZE: No. 8-1/2 or 9 (Larger shot will reduce pellet count and performance severely.)
POWDER: 12.4 gr. Alliant Promo -- ABSOLUTE MAXIMUM! (or 15.3 gr. Unique (No. 24 bushing) or Universal. You'd have to determine which MEC bushing drops that for Universal.)
MEC POWDER BUSHING FOR PROMO: No. 21
PRIMER: Fiocchi 616 (209), W209, STS209, Nobel Sport or PMC. (DO NOT USE the hotter Fed209A or Rio.)
WAD: Current "new" WAA20 (The older WAA20 wad and others are too short to crimp well and so far no clones are available for the newer WAA20.)

Average Velocity: 1209 fps.
Pressure: About 11,500 psi average for 3/4 oz. payload using Promo and W209 primer (Tested). Less than 11,000 psi using Unique.

With that said, and knowing what I know about Promo in 12 gauge, I bet you could easily create a 3/4 oz load with about 14 or 15 gr of Promo and still be completely safe.

Based on component availability and combinations, it probably wouldn't be the easiest to create but still very doable.

DO NOT TRY THIS LOAD - THIS IS PURELY SPECULATION

I'm thinking along the line of a Rem or Fed 16 gauge hull, a Rem SP16 or Gualandi 1oz wad, a Remington 209P primer and 14~15 gr of promo would probably be effective and safe with 3/4 oz of shot.

DO NOT TRY THIS LOAD - THIS IS PURELY SPECULATION

Member Joined: 02 Oct 2004 Posts: 425 Location: Maine

I developed a 3/4 oz. load using PROMO, Rem. GL hull, an SP-16, and a 1/2 inch 28g fibre wad for a filler in the bottom of the SP-16. Pressure was just below 8000 psi IIRC, and it was a mid 1100 fps load. The exact data is in the low pressure group's database.
7/8 should be do-able in a straight walled case, if velocities are moderate, ie Fed, Cheddite, Fiocchi, but I've never sent any in for testing.