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| < 16ga. Ammunition & Reloading ~ Paper hull and vintage fiber wad Armbrust results.... |
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 Posted:
Mon May 14, 2007 10:23 pm
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Joined: 01 Jan 2007
Posts: 1043
Location: Bozeman, MT
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.... Ched paper hull, factory ched primer, no over powder nitro card, two 1/2" felton blue streak fiber wads directly on top of powder, 1 oz 7 1/2, .070 16 bore OS card..... 23.3 grains Longshot.... around 4700 pressure, 1050 fps.... low and slow (so far).....
....the next batch I just sent DOES have .070 nitro card over 24.5 gr Longshot, two 1/2" blue streaks and NO OS card..... pressure should rise, but not too much I reckon, and so should my speed.... I also duped the load in a Federal with Win 209 primer just for grins, will let you know when I get these results back, if you're interested... 
Any suggestions?
brit |
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"Life is what happens to you while you're making other plans"....... anonymous |
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Tue May 15, 2007 3:06 am
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Joined: 27 Jun 2005
Posts: 1545
Location: Michigan
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Hey Brit,
You know I'm interested in your fiber wad results.
So please keep posting your test results.
It's kinda fun sending in your loads, and seeing just where they come out. 
Thanks Dave |
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What one person receives without working for, another person must work for without receiving. |
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| Posted:
Wed May 16, 2007 1:18 pm
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Joined: 31 Jan 2007
Posts: 11
Location: NW Lower Michigan
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I'm very interested in these loads, too. Also interested in fiber wad loads in plastic hulls, and am thinking about developing some for testing by Armbrust.
Having always followed recipes pretty much to the letter, I'm new to this. As a starting point, would it be appropriate to modify a load he has already tested using the same hull, powder, charge and shot but replacing the plastic wad with a fiber column? |
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| Posted:
Wed May 16, 2007 2:12 pm
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Joined: 01 Jan 2007
Posts: 1043
Location: Bozeman, MT
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| Hawk wrote: |
I'm very interested in these loads, too. Also interested in fiber wad loads in plastic hulls, and am thinking about developing some for testing by Armbrust.
Having always followed recipes pretty much to the letter, I'm new to this. As a starting point, would it be appropriate to modify a load he has already tested using the same hull, powder, charge and shot but replacing the plastic wad with a fiber column?
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That's what I did, but the fiber wads give a marked decrease in velocity and pressure. Be sure to use an overpowder nitro card (in 16ga, as I presume that's what you're loading). For the sake of safety, do start with a powder charge near the one used with the plastic wad, and test those, but I believe you'll be moving up at least a grain on your next batch....
If you can find some old Alcan Felton Blue Streak fiber wads, I think they will prove better than the current BP stuff, from what I've been hearing.... check ebay. That's where I got all of mine. Now that I've stopped buying them, the prices should be more reasonable!! 
brit |
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"Life is what happens to you while you're making other plans"....... anonymous |
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| Posted:
Wed May 16, 2007 2:29 pm
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Joined: 31 Jan 2007
Posts: 11
Location: NW Lower Michigan
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| britgun wrote: |
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That's what I did, but the fiber wads give a marked decrease in velocity and pressure.
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Think it'd be safe to compensate for the decrease in velocity by dropping the shot 1/8 oz. - say, from 7/8 to 3/4? |
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| Posted:
Wed May 16, 2007 5:19 pm
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Joined: 01 Jan 2007
Posts: 1043
Location: Bozeman, MT
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| Hawk wrote: |
| britgun wrote: |
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That's what I did, but the fiber wads give a marked decrease in velocity and pressure.
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Think it'd be safe to compensate for the decrease in velocity by dropping the shot 1/8 oz. - say, from 7/8 to 3/4?
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I'm not experienced enough to give you a confident answer. There are some guys like Dave M that might have one for you. Mine were 1 oz. loads and I'm going to stick with those for awhile until I've tweaked it well enough, then start trying other shot charge weights.
Good luck and have fun...
Duncan |
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"Life is what happens to you while you're making other plans"....... anonymous |
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| Posted:
Thu May 17, 2007 3:21 am
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Joined: 27 Jun 2005
Posts: 1545
Location: Michigan
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| Hawk wrote: |
| britgun wrote: |
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That's what I did, but the fiber wads give a marked decrease in velocity and pressure.
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Think it'd be safe to compensate for the decrease in velocity by dropping the shot 1/8 oz. - say, from 7/8 to 3/4?
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Normally, a reduction in payload, will result in a reduction in case pressure and an increase in velocity. You really need to know where you are starting at. And make small adjustments. The only way your going to know for sure, where you are at PSI and Velocity, is to have your loads tested. |
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What one person receives without working for, another person must work for without receiving. |
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| Posted:
Thu May 17, 2007 5:14 am
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Joined: 16 Nov 2006
Posts: 1338
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Last edited by mike campbell on Fri Jul 26, 2019 6:05 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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| Posted:
Thu May 17, 2007 6:39 am
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Joined: 31 Jan 2007
Posts: 11
Location: NW Lower Michigan
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| Other posts indicate Armbrust recommends a test of five shells. What's the procedure for sending them to him - any specific carrier, packaging, hazmat, etc.? |
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| Posted:
Thu May 17, 2007 6:55 am
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Member
Joined: 27 Jun 2005
Posts: 1545
Location: Michigan
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| Hawk wrote: |
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Other posts indicate Armbrust recommends a test of five shells. What's the procedure for sending them to him - any specific carrier, packaging, hazmat, etc.?
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When I'm working up a load, I just send 3 of each load. When I get close to what I'm looking for, I'll send him 5 of the final load for a better average.
I send the shells UPS, I mark ORM-D on the box, and package so they don't rattle or roll around. Never had a problem yet. Hope this helps. |
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What one person receives without working for, another person must work for without receiving. |
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| Posted:
Thu May 17, 2007 2:15 pm
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Joined: 31 Jan 2007
Posts: 11
Location: NW Lower Michigan
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| Yep, sure does. Three makes a lot of sense for a trial run. I'm going to try to get some to him in the next couple weeks. Thanks for the info. |
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| Posted:
Fri May 18, 2007 2:16 pm
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Joined: 01 Jan 2007
Posts: 1043
Location: Bozeman, MT
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| mike campbell wrote: |
Brit,
I'm curious about your mission. Maybe you discussed it in another thread and I missed it?
if you don't mind...
Do you have a specific ballistic goal? some combination of payload,pressure, velocity?
If so, are the fiber wads contibuting something you can't get with a plastic cup, or are they just fun?
I'm not pre-judging in any way, just genuinely curious. I accumulated quite an assortment of old Herters/Alcan wads and cards to use as fillers in a search for light shot-charge loads, but gave up and sold the whole package on Ebay a few months ago. But I always put them into shot cups to take up volume....never constructed loads in the traditional manner, and I'm wondering what motivates you.
regards, Mike.
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Mike.
I'm just doing it for fun, to try to get lower pressure loads that work with the vintage stuff, and also, to shoot in my tighter choked old guns to see what the patterns are like.... if they open up any without plastic shotcups.... it's just for fun.....
think it's going to prove successful with the Longshot.... did you ever try any of it in your experiments?
Duncan
Duncan |
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"Life is what happens to you while you're making other plans"....... anonymous |
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| Posted:
Fri May 18, 2007 6:33 pm
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Joined: 16 Nov 2006
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Last edited by mike campbell on Fri Jul 26, 2019 6:04 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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| Posted:
Tue May 22, 2007 9:23 am
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Joined: 01 Jan 2007
Posts: 1043
Location: Bozeman, MT
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| mike campbell wrote: |
Duncan,
I understand completely. Handloading is a hobby unto itself.
I've gone to Longshot exclusively for conventional 28ga loads...migrated there from HS6 to Unique to Universal Clays and finally LS. It's also great for 20ga loads for an autoloader and I did load a few roll crimped 16's, but with plastic cups.
I've never loaded a shell without a plastic cup and probably never will now that I've given up on roll crimping as well. My handloading these days is geared towards many thousands of target loads rather than specialty hunting loads.
best, Mike
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Yeah, I understand, and I still have all the stuff to knock out scads of loads with plastic and such, too, for doing a lot of shooting. But I do think I've stumbled onto something cool here, I just got my first batch from Armbrust in the mail, and it is really way better than I had expected! Very low pressure (like avg 4700) and not bad on the speed (like 1100 fps)... I am encouraged, and I added about a full grain to the next batch to see what happens.... I still think my pressures will be very reasonable (guessing still under 6000) , but velocities could climb a full 100 fps..... I love all things vintage, so that is one reason why this old obsolete fiber stuff blows my hair back, that and experimentation and pioneering....
brit |
_________________
"Life is what happens to you while you're making other plans"....... anonymous |
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