16ga.com ~ View topic - more Armburst good results using fiber wads.....

....hey, this Longshot/vintage Alcan fiber wad combo is the nuts!

I used a nitro card over the nitro (duh) this time, and bumped the powder to 24.5 gr Longshot from 23.3

here's what I got:

Ched paper hull, Ched factory primer (hulls come with), 24.5 Longshot, One .070 Alcan nitro card, Two 1/2" Alcan Felton Blue Streak waxed fiber wads, no OS card, 1 oz magnum shot 7 1/2, 6 fold crimp. AVG velocity 1227 fps, AVG pressure 6025 psi
This is about what I guessed it would be and I am very happy with these results.

THEN, I crammed all the above stuff into a Federal purple and used Win 209 primer and got AVG velocity of 1257 and AVG pressure of 7625, which is still very acceptable to me (when you look at the vast majority of higher factory load pressures).

BUT THEN.... I used all the same stuff back into a Ched paper, EXCEPT I used One 1/2" Alcan fiber, and then ONE 3/8" Alcan fiber then put a 1/8" 20 ga. OS card on top and got:

AVG velocity 1239 and AVG pressure 6700, but the consistency of this load was better than the first one, there was only a 200 psi difference from the hottest to the mildest in the 4 shot test group.... this 1/2" fiber and 3/8" fiber with the OS card was best of all, though speed dropped slightly and pressure rose slightly....

BUT THEN, GET THIS: I did the same thing (One 1/2" and One 3/8" fiber) in the Fed purple with Win 209's again, used the 1/8" 20 bore OS card and velocity INCREASED to 1268 avg, and pressure CAME DOWN to 7175 avg psi (compared to the other Fed test hull above with the TWO 1/2" fiber wads and no OS card)... BINGO!

Anyhow, I'm quite pleased and will load up tons of these in the Fed hulls for easy, everyday shooting (and I'll likely hunt huns, grouse, and sky rats with 'em, as well.....)

I have yet to pattern them, but I am speculating that old tight chokes could open up a bit (which is sure fine by me) without the further constriction of modern plastic shotcups.... we'll see....

If anybody wants more info, lemme know....this worked better than I ever dreamed....

brit

Brit
Wow ! they loads are the nuts! Great job by you friend. I got plenty of these old componets but no Longshot-----------But I'll cure that problem real soon Exclamation

Brit,

Great work. These loads all sound terrific, the last Fed load especially. Did you use a 6 pt. crimp over the 1/8" OS card on that one?

Any thoughts on whether the increased velocities & pressures over your last test batch are due to the nitro card or the increased charge, or a combination of the two?

Never would have thought you'd get those velocities at those pressures.

Are you having any leading problems without a plastic shotcup?

This is fascinating stuff.

Dan

[quote="Hawk"]Brit,

Great work. These loads all sound terrific, the last Fed load especially. Did you use a 6 pt. crimp over the 1/8" OS card on that one?

Any thoughts on whether the increased velocities & pressures over your last test batch are due to the nitro card or the increased charge, or a combination of the two?

Never would have thought you'd get those velocities at those pressures.

Are you having any leading problems without a plastic shotcup?

This is fascinating stuff.

Hi Dan,

yeah, 6 pt. crimp, I would guess increases are more related to the increased powder charge, as these old waxed Alcan jobs seem to seal up pretty good, and I base that on the first test results I got without the nitro card... but I'm sure that the over powder card must have had something to do with it....

I was especially glad that I got such good results with the Feds because they are cheap and are good for many reloads. I have yet to see how the Ched papers hold up, but I've heard that they get shot up pretty quick...

In all honesty, I haven't shot any of them yet, so I can't answer your question about fouling, though I'd guess that I will be scrubbing a little harder with the tornado and wire brushes than before.....

It has been fun experimenting with this old stuff. Man, this Longshot is really great stuff, I must say..... an interesting aside: the new Lyman book recommends a shot charge of about 24.5 Longshot in it's 1 oz load in the Fed hull with conventional wad (SP-16, I believe) though the pressures are a lot higher, but the velocity is about the same....

Duncan

Joined: 06 Apr 2007 Posts: 50

This is confusing to me. I have a BP 16ga reloading manual and all the Longshot loads are high velocity, high pressure. The load formulas are not using fiber wads and the hulls are new plastic. The volumn of powder in these formulas is higher than mentioned here but not excessively higher. Is the slightly smaller powder charge and the fiber wads making 2K plus difference in pressures?

I'm not overly knowledgable on burn rates and powder types beyond using what is called out in a given formula but from BP's manual I assumed that Longshot was a 'hunting' powder, high velocity with a good punch (10K+ pressures) and 1 1/8 - 1 1/4 oz. loads.

I prefer to load with fiber wads and have been doing so in 16ga for some time. I have not had my loads tested but I like the feel. Not as hot as off the shelf field loads and still apparently good velocity but am always open to new loads thus my interest in clarifying my curiousity.

Joined: 13 Feb 2007 Posts: 98 Location: Illinois

Brit,

Got the results from Armbrust on my fiber wad loads.

- New 2 1/2" Fiocchi hull w/factory primer (don't have any paper hulls yet)
- 16.5 gr. Universal
- 1/2" CFW prelubed fiber
- .030 card (put it on top of the prelubed wad to keep the lube off the ram)
- 3/8" CFW waxed fiber
- 3/4 oz. #7 1/2 shot
- 1/8" CFW waxed fiber
- .030 card
- 6-pt. crimp

Average velocity 856 fps @ 5366 psi. Too slow.

Think I'll borrow from your adjustments between your first & second test loads and bump the charge to 17.5 grains. I'm looking for more velocity with pressure still in the low range. I'll probably load 'em over the weekend & would appreciate any advice you may have.

I notice you added a .070 nitro card. Looks like these are the same diameter as the fiber wads, so I'm wondering whether it would give any better gas seal?

Where did you find the Federal papers? The only 16 ga. papers readily available on the net are the Cheddites. Sounds like they'll work fine, but looks like the Federals are just the ticket.

- Dan

Joined: 21 Apr 2007 Posts: 5 Location: Pennsylvania

Dan,
Definitely use a nitro card, either a .070" or a .135". This will improve your load performance.

I did some testing a while back, when reading about folks running "felt" wonder wads as overpowder seals in muzzleloaders. So I brought out the trusty muzzleloader and loaded some good dense felt on top of my powder without a card. The load ran through the chrono at just under 600fps.
I then loaded the same exact load except adding a .070" nitro card over the powder, and that load clocked in at 1101fps... Much better seal...
If you need some cards, let me know and I will send you some.

Craig

Craig,

Thanks for the insight. I'll probably order some tomorrow. If the diameter is the same as the fiber wad, what is it about the nitro card that makes a better seal? As your velocity increased with the nitro card, any idea what happened with the pressure?

Your prelubed & waxed fiber wads load up very nicely. They go through the wad guide on my Mark V slick as can be. Thanks for the tip about using the .030 card on top of the prelubed to keep the lube off the ram. Works great.

Thanks again.

- Dan

Joined: 21 Apr 2007 Posts: 5 Location: Pennsylvania

Dan,

The fiber wads are soft enough to allow pressure to escape. By adding a card, this gives the pressure something hard to push against and also supports the softer fiber wad.

You may want to re-try your load with cards before you up the powder charge. I will send you some cards today.

Craig

Ps. I still have some samples left if anyone would like to try some.