16ga.com ~ View topic

Joined: 08 Sep 2004 Posts: 10 Location: Grand Prairie, TX.

Local shop has a Browning Sweet 16 in about 80%. Wood is decent with no cracks, bluing is very worn, no major scratches or gouges, plain barrel with the matted top, no rib, asking price is $495, they said they could possibly go a little lower. Gun is very tight, and seems to function good. I can take it out at their range and test it before I buy it. What do ya'll think, get it or pass?
Dave in TX

Member Joined: 18 Nov 2005 Posts: 398 Location: S Fl

If it hasn't been butchered by the addition of a pad, and is in the condition you describe, it's a good deal.
I'd like to know when it was made. Did you get the serial?

Pete

Joined: 06 Apr 2007 Posts: 50

Beauty is in the eye of the beholder, and so is the value of any given firearm. The $495 figure is not out of line for an average Sweet Sixteen, based on what I have seen ( I would, however; try to get the price down as much as possible) but you definately have to test fire it. As much as possible.

A5's can be problematic. I have a Sweet Sixteen I have had since 1960. I got it as a used gun for Christmas that year. It was made in 1953. I gave it moderate use throughout the sixties and early seventies and never had a single problem with it. Then I bought an L C Smith and feel in love. Wink

Recently, I had the Sweeet Sixteen sent to Simmons in Kansas and had a rib put on it. Of course when they put the rib on, the heat discolors the barrel and then they have the reblue the entire gun to get things to match. In the process the gun gets cleaned....throughly!

When I got it back it looked great and I lioved the rib but at the range I had a problem with the bolt not closing properly and the gun being unable to fire a second round. A pin was backing out and hanging up another part of the bolt. I sent it off and several weeks later it returned supposedly fixed. I took it to the range and after 2 boxes of shells the problem returned. I hand carried it to the repair facility and they worked on it as I waited. I am going to try it again this afternoon.

My point being: They don't make new parts for this gun any longer and you really don 't know what you are getting unles you test fire it. You definately need to shoot it. Both field loads and target loads ( I assume you have access to a hand loader and or someone who will load for you). You will have to reposition the rings in the forearm if you change types of shells, ie: field loads to target (low pressure) loads.

Maybe you know all this already, which is good. I am passing this along only as a very strong supporter of "Murphy's Law".

Keep us updated on what you decide.

Joined: 11 May 2005 Posts: 124 Location: Kansas City

Roll Crimp, your Sweet Sixteen is punishing you for putting a rib on it. Only a gun made in Japan would be caught dead wearing a rib.

Member Joined: 25 Jul 2006 Posts: 781

A5's should not be problematic......they are easy to fix but a lot of younger smiths dont have much experience with them cause they jhust dont break that often. Find an old guy with grease under his fingernails and he'll fix it so it works for the next 100 years. (I put 75 shells through a 101 year old A5 today)

That is cheap for a Sweet Sixteen if it is in decent, unmodified shape. I've seen lots of sweet sixteen barrels go for more than that on eBay....but they didnt have Simmons ribs tack welded to them.

Sorry for ribbing you (pun intended) Simmons does fine work. But I'm a fan of the plain barrel A5's too.

Jeff

Joined: 06 Apr 2007 Posts: 50

If either of you two "no rib" aficionados care to offer up a good A5 gunsmith I am more than willing to take down the information.

I called Browning ( after reading their web sight info and knowing that they probably don't work on A5's any more) and ask about getting this fixed. They refer me to MGW or some place in Canada. ( Yeah....sure....I'll send my gun to Canada! Right!)

MGW bills themselves as "ex-Browning gunsmiths" and they work on A5's. They talk a good talk but they don't produce. I got the old song and dance about, "This gun has been redone."....as if that automatically makes it disfunctional! Then I hear , "Ya know they don't make parts for these guns any more?".

Do either of you think the original poster will have any better luck getting a competent gunsmith to work on his gun IF it malfunctions? I doubt it. I was just pointing out the possible down side to buying this gun. I didn't say it absolutely would happen....but IF it does??????

What if ( I know you shot bizzilllions of shells through a 101 year old gun) the extractor breaks or a trigger piece or any of the smaller metal parts??? Numrich 'may' have some parts but they don't have everything. Who does? Maybe this 'old gunsmith' you refer to???? I will be waiting for his name and address.

In my original post to this thread, I refered to an L C Smith I bought . On their forum sight they, re-stock, re-blue, engrave, drill holes in the stock or frame to provide a way to compress the top lever spring, open forcing cones and yes even put ribs on the old girls. All in the name of preserving the gun and personal preference. No one says a thing. On eBay the original sweet 16 ribbed barrels go for $400 plus, which is more than some sweet 16's are worth. Why is it I get a rash of BS about putting a rib on my Sweet 16? Confused

Seeing as how I apparently have ruined this fine old picee, prehaps one of you would like put forth an offer to buy it......several hundreds of dollars would be a good starting point since it is such a valuable piece, problems not with standing. Wink

Member Joined: 25 Jul 2006 Posts: 781

Compared to other guns A5's are not "problematic", heck your gun apparently worked fine till you had someone do some custom work on it.

These guns are easy to work on. The problems with your gun reflect on the gunsmith working on it.....not the gun design. I do my own work on A5's, post the symptoms of your gun and I'll see if I can id the problem.

Regarding your point on sourcing parts....Parts for A5's are not hard to find, certainly easier to find than parts for any other classic gun certainly easier than for an LC or similar gun. Almost all parts are interchangable from 1903 through the end of production. Many new parts are still in inventory. And used guns are plentiful and cheap so used parts are usually a good value.

Help and advice is not hard to find, go to the Browning Forum at Shotgunworld

Just MO,

Jeff

Member Joined: 30 May 2007 Posts: 216 Location: Tennessee

Roll Crimp:

I have had MidWest Gun Works do some minor cosmetic work on one Sweet 16 and go through this gun and another sweet 16 since both guns were at least forty years old and new to me. Both guns function as they are supposed to after the work. I found MidWest easy to work with and they had reasonable prices. I did stop by their business to drop off the guns and talk to them about the work. I will be taking two more Brownings to MGW this fall. If you had rather not deal with MGW, give Art's Gun Shop a call. I am sure Art can get get your Sweet 16 ready for many years of enjoyable service.

I took an old BT-99 (again new to me) to Art's to see what servicing he thought the gun may need to keep it in good shooting condition. He messed around with the gun for about 2 minutes. He then put the gun back together and told me to put 10 to 15 thousand more rounds through the gun and then it may be ready for some work. I appreciate such an honest assessment.

I shoot and hunt with A5's and Double Automatics because I shoot well with them, they have a "quality" feel and look to them and they are not problematic.

Joined: 08 Sep 2004 Posts: 10 Location: Grand Prairie, TX.

The serial # is S198XX. Went and took another look at it today. It has had a pad put on.
Dave

Joined: 06 Apr 2007 Posts: 50

I too have hand carried my sixteen to MGW and talked with them about it. Nice people, I agree, but nice people does not fix my problem.

The young man I spoke with seemed very knowledgable about the gun. I had great confidence in getting it fixed. Now however, I doubt they can do that for me and the verbage about "this gun has been re-done.....they don't make parts for this gun any more", really kind'a turned me off to them. As if they were hedging their bet, up front before really even loooking at it, so to speak.

I'm going to give them a call anyway, just to see how far down the road they are going to send me and what kind of excuses, if any, they will dole out.

I am not familar with Art's. Do you have a phone number? Where is Art's located...what state or city?

Member Joined: 30 May 2007 Posts: 216 Location: Tennessee

Roll Crimp:

Art was a Browning gunsmith for about twenty-five to thirty years. Ironically his shop is about 25-30 miles from MidWest Gun Works at Hillsboro, Missouri. His shop is out in the country behind his house. He is probably the best person in the country to take a Belgium Superposed to for repairs and/or restoration. He also works on all other Brownings. His information is:

Art's Gun Shop
6008 Highway Y
Hillsboro, Missouri 63050

#(636)944-3630

I know what you mean about dealing with someone you have confidence in. One of the sweet sixteen's I took to MGW was definitely a "parts" gun that had been messed with. It has a Belgium receiver and barrel and brand new Japanese stock and forearm. Whoever owned the gun previously had tried to put the new stock on the receiver and did not know what they were doing. Every screwhead in the receiver and that attached the stock to the tang was mangled and looked terrible. I bought the gun sight unseen from a dealer I had dealt with in the past. I knew the problems upfront but the price was too good to pass up for a gun with a vent-rib barrel. I went to MGW to get the screws replaced and the stock refitted. The gunsmith suggested they repair the screwheads as the original screws work better in refitting. This gun is strictly a shooter and I was pleased with what they did with this gun. I also wanted to make sure that the former owner hadn't screwed up the gun internally.

Good luck in getting your gun ready for use. It should last you a long time.

Joined: 06 Apr 2007 Posts: 50

Thanks for the information on Art's. Its always good to have more than one option for getting things done.

I will get it taken care of one way or another but I must appologize to the original poter to this thread for sort'a highjacking it. It seems we have taken it over with my problems and not really addressed the original post.

I know that I am not well educated in the Browning design and architecture of A5 type shotguns. I have had them for 40+ years but I shoot them rather that disect them.

Perhaps 50cal is right about parts? I have looked for some parts for this 16ga and found very few. I can find parts for 12 and 20 ga guns but 16ga is another issue I fear.

In any case thanks for the help with my issues.

Member Joined: 18 Nov 2005 Posts: 398 Location: S Fl

Tx50cal,
The serial puts it in 1954, which is smack dab in the period of most desireable, as far as I'm concerned anyhow.
The pad detracts significantly from the value, though at the price/condition you describe, it's probably still a good buy.

If the barrel length, LOP, and choke suit your intended use, go for it.

Pete