16ga.com ~ View topic

Member Joined: 25 Jul 2006 Posts: 781

I'm just finishing a renovation project for a shooting buddy from my local club. He lurks at all these sites but is an infrequent poster. He has the weirdest array of shotguns one can imagine. These are typically guns you walk right past at the gunshows and you dont know what your are missing. Every one of them is a heck of a lot of fun.

This gun is a Darne 16 ga gun from pre WW1 (I think) It has French military inventory numbers stamped on the stock. One can just imagine this being a recreational gun in the inventory of the French army before WW1, or the French foreign legion in north Africa or southeast Asia. Who knows? It has some bad pitting in hard to see areas so I'm choosing to imagine that it was in hot wet southeast Asia, before the Viet Cong kicked the French out.

The owner shot it well but it needed a little TLC. The checkering was just about gone, there was a fair amount of oil in the stock making the wood punky. And we were worried about what corrosion might be going on inside and hidden by the wood. Learning to disassemble a Darne was an adventure, but I got help on line at Doublegun.com.

I did not want to try to make it look new or hide the inventory stamps so the wood was only lightly sanded. It held all the color and character. Recutting the checkering was a pita but it came out ok. Trying to save as much of the original lines is a lot harder than sanding and starting with a clean slate. Line spacing on these old guns never seems to be exactly the same as the tools you can buy....You be the judge.

Jeff

Member Joined: 17 Feb 2007 Posts: 497

Bien cuit !

I would say that she's ready for the next 90 years.

Nice job.

Member Joined: 27 Jun 2005 Posts: 1545 Location: Michigan

Nice job Jeff. I really like those Darnes for some reason.
I've never even had one in my hands, but I hear they are really light.
I will have one in 16 gauge one of these days. Wink

Joined: 19 Jun 2004 Posts: 1480 Location: Mpls, MN.

Hard to tell from the photos what vintage, but, a photo of the barrels flats could get us a lot closer estimate. Two piece stocks were more common AFTER WWI then prior (Darne cataloged both in the 1909 catalog) but, it could be pre war. I've seen guns sold at police auctions that have stamps like that and wondered if a jailer was responsible for numbering them, and didn't care how it looked.

Looks like you did fine work. What kind of finish did you use? Hope he appreciates it. I've a pair, a 12 and a 20, but, alas, no 16. Sweet handling guns, indeed.
Best,
Ted

Member Joined: 25 Jul 2006 Posts: 781

Ted,

The owner looked up the date and I dont remember it exactly but do remember it as being pre WW2. I'll confirm with him today.

You answered my post in SW about disassembly, thanks!

The finish is 50/50 tung and spar urethane. First coats are thinned 50% with mineral spirits. All coats are put on like a hand rubbed finish, a couple of drops avery day or so. I wet sanded it with finish and wet dry paper. the final sanding was with 1200 grit paper made for use on auto paint.

There are bunches of opinions on how to keep the gloss level low and classy. I just make sure I have good even coverage on the last wet sanding, then do the final application or two of finish thinned with mineral spirits and quit as soon as the gloss level is where I want it.

As far as handling, this one is a little fast for my tastes. The barrels are 26". I suspect that 28" barrels would make it pefect for me.

Yes, the owner appreciates it! And I'll get to see the gun shot regularly as he shoots at the same club I do and he always lets me play with his toys!

Jeff

Member Joined: 31 Oct 2005 Posts: 446 Location: Wisconsin

Nice restoration. Barrels are 65cm. These guns were popular in the Tropics as the 'ejector' mechanism would extract a swelled paper shell.
Ted had Bruchet build me a 16 bore R11 Darne pictured here with a Stoeger era 20 bore Darne R10, both 65 cm. They are 'Point & Shoot' which work well for me in fast acquisition.
The double triggers on the R11 are somewhat unique as the front trigger will fire the barrels sequentially.

If you want a new 16 bore Darne better get going as Ted tells me Bruchet is just using up existing actions and barrels. I don't know what the prices are today with the $ against the EURO but they are not getting any cheaper. Most 16's I see for sale in the US are Contenental guns with sling swivals and slings which are not for me. The 16 was/is very popular over there and they like slings for some reason?-Dick

Joined: 19 Jun 2004 Posts: 1480 Location: Mpls, MN.

Good to hear from you, Dick, and glad you like the guns.

Note to all, Ted isn't doing that work anymore. Importing firearms is fraught with difficulty, expense and worry. I did my decade+ run. I wouldn't have changed it, and I won't go back to it again. Sorry. When I comment on a slidey breech gun these days, it is only as an interested board member.

Best,
Ted

Joined: 09 Mar 2006 Posts: 39 Location: maryland

Jeff has been nice enough to turn his skill and curiosity in the direction of my Darne, of course he is responsible for me buying a 16 ga pre war A5. I didnt know I was collecting 16 gauges as I am really more of a duck guy but I seem to have 5 at this point. On to the Darne, I bought it in Baltimore about a year ago and love it, of course i love most odd guns. A Manufrance Ideal is on the covet list too.
Ted, I am not enough of a computer guy to do pics, but here is whats on the flats. I am reading this with the barrels upside down and breach end on my right.
Further barrel "non pout la balle" in an arc with "choke" underneath. "Arantis Acier Fondo ? ET Trempe" "Canons Frettes" 2 eagle type marks "Deux Palmes" "Epreuve Subcharget" "17.0"
The other barrel now... "D 311" "Arantis Acier Fondo ? Et Thempe" "Sans Soudure" Deux Palmes" There is some pitting here which makes it hard to read.
On the flats a "crown over PT" on both sides, "darne in a circle" centered, "Darne" in script over "Brevette - S.G.D.G." also centered. "Canons Darne" with it hink 4.5 under on top and "St. Etienne" with what looks like 6.5 under.
There is some pitting under the barrels up through the area covered by the wood, but not on the flats.
Any idea of age model or history is appreciated.
Thanks
Lawrence

Member Joined: 25 Jul 2006 Posts: 781

As he posted I'll complete the introduction. Lawrence is a frequent reader but a rare poster and a lot of fun. You can always spot Lawrence at the club. He is the guy holding a gun you don't recognise....with a big bull Labrador aptly named "Spike" dancing around his feet.

I've seen him shoot a round of skeet with everyting from an Ithaca 10 gauge SxS, Win '97 trench gun, LC Smith 20, Bayard 16 ga hammer gun...Lord knows what's next.,,,but you can be sure it will be neat.

Jeff

Member Joined: 17 Feb 2007 Posts: 497

Welcome Lawrence ! You sound like my kind of guy, not afraid to wander off the beaten path !

Joined: 19 Jun 2004 Posts: 1480 Location: Mpls, MN.

Well, Lawrence, congratulations-you own a pre WWII Darne R 11 16 gauge. The left barrel is (could be "was", these guns have been worked on by gunsmiths from time to time who backbore, lengthen chambers, remove choke and what-have-you) choked and bored pretty tight on the 16 gauge scale, 17.0 hence, the manufacturer warned against using 16 bore pumpkin balls in it- "Non Pour la Balle" is what you meant to type. The D 311 'kinda puts the gun in the 1930s time frame-but, more on that in a minute. The 65 markings (that 45 should be a 65, by the way) were the length of the chamber when the gun was new, 2 1/2 or so. They could have been lengthened since new, no big deal either way. "Garantis Acier Fondue" pretty much means "Guaranteed fluid steel", "Sans Soudure" means "Without brazing", a selling point for the Darne method of putting barrels together on the monobloc patent with silver solder, PT is proof with French smokeless powder T, pretty much standard since 1900. The Darne in a circle is the grade stamp, one of them means R11 grade. Just like Dick's gun up there but, older.
Now, back to the time frame of build. That "Deux Palmes" mark was supposed to be a thing of the past by 1923 or so when the French proof laws were overhauled, but, I have found it on guns I know were built later than that. It was the second level of proof beyond single proof, and I'm not sure why some later guns have that mark. Most of the guns I've seen it on have "Made in France" stamped on the rib, a bit of a clue, I suspect, because French guns don't have perfect English phrases on them, UNLESS they are specifically for export. Or, it could simply mean the gun was built prior to 1923-but, that serial number is out of period for that. But, we are in the ballpark, anyway. Just say between the wars. Close enough.
You can feed it anything you like, or can stand the recoil on (do stay away from bore diameter pumpkin balls, however) but, low pressure 16 stuff will be easiest on the gun, your shoulder and the stock. If you need fixing (seldom) kirk Merrington is your man. A strip and clean would be a splendid idea, by the way. Wouldn't be a bad idea to measure chokes, chambers and bores to see exactly where you are at, either.
Do enjoy it. I sure like mine!
Best,
Ted

Joined: 09 Mar 2006 Posts: 39 Location: maryland

Hi Postoak,
I occasionally trip over the well traveled path, but never on purpose. I am too contrarian for that. If Jeff ever gets together the 16 ga shoot at our IWLA chapter, I hope you can make it. It is Bethesda Chevy Chase in Poolesville, MD.
Hi Ted,
Thanks for the info. I can post the rest of the serial number later. The D311 is not the whole thing, I think it is 5 digits. The barrels have some issues. There are some small dents which dont really concern me and some bad pitting on the outside under the barrels but not on the flats hidden by the stock as well as some minor pitting inside. I have been shooting it quite a bit with the 1 oz Remington Game loads with no issues other than I stop the gun but thats me.
All together though, I love the gun. The engraving is nice with quite a bit of coverage, chiseled at the balls and light scroll elsewhere. And thanks to Jeff the wood looks great and sharp checkering really adds to the feel as well as the look of the gun. Any ideas on where to find a Darne original horn but plate? This one has fed a few worms in its day.
Thanks Again
Lawrence

Member Joined: 25 Jul 2006 Posts: 781

Lawrence,

I still have that Darne repro plate you gave me. I just could not bring myself to put it on. That horn buttplate may have "some issues" but I still think it looks right on that gun compared to the shiny gloss plastic one.

Maybe if I dipped the plastin one in acetone for a moment I could distress it. Shocked

Ted, the inside looks great. I did not tear it all down but it was in prett nice shape inside though you could see that there was corrosion in hidden areas where there was no maintenance done. The bearing parts are all clean as a whistle and slick, smooth and fun to operate.
Jeff

Joined: 09 Mar 2006 Posts: 39 Location: maryland

Hi Jeff,
I agree with you on the buttplate, the original even in its current state looks better than the repro. FYI the repro is from Dutchman Woodworks.
Ted, The full serial number on the darne is D311. The D is struck pretty light in most areas, I thought it was a 1.
Thanks All
Lawrence