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Joined: 06 Apr 2007 Posts: 50

I was talking with a gent at the gun club this afternoon and he was all excited about picking up a Sweeet Sixteen, Japaneese made. I guess he thought he could temp me with it? He claimed that people are paying through the nose for these Japan Brownings. especially the Sweet Sixteen's. They are so popular, per his opinion, becauwe they use invector chokes and can shoot steel shot. He also claims that the steel in the Jap made Brownings is 'Much" better than the Belgium guns. I am wondering if this is true?

Personally I don't believe it but then, as for as Brownings go, I am partial to Belgium Brownings and always have been. Buying a Citori that came from Japan a couple years ago really frosted my glass but the price was right and I was unsure of what I really wanted so I took it.

Since I don't hunt any longer, the steel shot is not a concern for me. Clay birds don't care what kind of shot I use.

So then, the questions is: Your opinion of Sweet Sixteen's, Belgium or Japan made?

Joined: 15 Oct 2004 Posts: 787 Location: Indiana

Assuming equal condition, I would collect the Belgian Sweet 16, hands down. Problem is finding them at an acceptable (I won't say "low" or "fair") price....I recently saw one on the net advertised for $1,400 for a '67 Sweet 16 in Mod choke; appeared to be pretty clean...
For those who need/want choke tubes, and whose guns are hunted hard in all kinds of weather, I say shoot a Citori---but if you want one that is desirable and, for whatever reason, holds its value...and if you plan to treasure it and care for it properly then invest in a Belgian.

Member Joined: 02 Feb 2006 Posts: 602 Location: western pa

I'll go with Wolfchief on this. Steel shot capability aside, the Belgian guns seem to command a better price. I think that your aquaintence was just happy with what he got and that's a good thing.

Member Joined: 25 Jul 2006 Posts: 781

Belgian guns are generally preferred but for no good reason. The Japanese guns had a little better metal and the workmanship is as good as the Belgian guns and better on the internal parts for many of the years that they were made by FN.

Besides the perceived collector value the real differences were the finish where the later guns had the horrid fullerplast finish on the wood...it looks like a bowling pin...and the caustic blue which lacts the class and soft blue black color of the earlier slow rust blue. Then there is always the flat knob stock which was used most of the years of Japanese production.

Now the last point, the forends on the Japanese guns are much fatter, and feel clubby in the hand. It is mostly perception but they feel slower handling because of the forend....on they other hand they are less likely to crack so it is not all bad.

Jeff

Joined: 28 Mar 2007 Posts: 154 Location: Denver, Colorado

Doesn't apply to the A-5, but I've heard the Miroku-made Citoris have hard soldered barrels while the FN-made Superposeds have soft soldered barrels, causing the Citoris to have more durable barrel assemblies. Anyone know if this is true?

--shinbone

Member Joined: 25 Jul 2006 Posts: 781

The Superposed and just about all of the earlier high quality two barreled guns used sodt solder. Almost all later guns including the Citori are brazed.

Soft solder works just fine, however if you reblue a barrel with the caustic process the soft solder will come apart and eventually the ribs will spring and the barrels will come unstuck...

Jeff

Joined: 06 Apr 2007 Posts: 50

Thanks....pretty much what I thought.

I realize the steel shot may be a concern for some and the invector chokes give a measure of versitility, but the bottom line here is, I think, that the fellow I was talking to was either misinformed or trying to justify a bad deal he made.

Thanks for the input and information.

RC

I'll take a set of brazed barrels anytime if ( and this is a mighty big if) the set is properly assembled and is not warped during the process from the high heat. The brazed barrel sets are far more rugged and far less likely to get overheated and seperate or toss a rib during extended shooting sessions. This is vital to modern trap, skeet, and SC guns.

Perazzi, Kreighhoff, and Miroku are three manufacturers that have apparently mastered the process enough to produce consistantly well assembled, well regulated brazed barrel sets. This may now include Beretta as well. The success of the guns from any of these manufacturers on the competition lines around the globe says it all. If the guns did not shoot accurately, they would not be well represented. all of them certainly are.

There are a number of other companies that are still learning the process. Then there are a handful who don't seem to be able to do it consistantly right. My best advise is learn what a well assembled, accurate set of barrels looks like. Then look carefully at any barrel set you might be considering for purchase.

For the average hunting double, this resistance to heat is less important, unless you frequently shoot the gun for extended strings of targets in the summer. Here, for normal field shooting, a soldered barrel set will serve very well if it is also well regulated and accurate. Many of the older, pre WWII quality doubles were and are some of the most accurate guns ever made. However, if you are lucky enough to own one, use it wisely and avoid getting those tubes too hot from long strings of targets. Once the barrels seperate or toss a rib, getting them resoldered is both expensive and a bit risky. The set might or might not come out well regulated and accurate once again.

However, I'd not take it for granted that all older doubles are accurate. Any old used gun has an untold history. The barrels on even the most prestigeous name guns might have seperated and been repaired at some time in the past. This could be especially true if the barrels look like they have been refinished. hot bluing has ruined more than a few of these older guns.

Then there are the lesser well made older trade or hardware grade makes. Most of these less expensive trade guns may or may not have well regulated barrels. They were cheap for a reason. Many corners were cut to keep them inexpensive. Barrel regulation was one of the most common of these short cuts. Look before you leap. Getting those barrels reregulated is both expensive, and not always possible to boot.

If you have an acurate set, take care of it. It's the heart and soul of your gun and the main reason that gun shoots so very well.

Oldhunter,
None of my A5's are O/U or SxS either Rolling Eyes

Prolly only made a few of them and us guys just don't know about them Laughing

Looks like the topic in that post kinda got lost in the wind....

Joined: 28 Mar 2007 Posts: 154 Location: Denver, Colorado

My bad . . . I am the one that veered down the Citori vs Superposed path . . .