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Joined: 28 Jan 2007 Posts: 115 Location: Grampian, PA

Anybody know a close cross reference? I use the Fiocchis in my 2.5" sixteens & twenties. I have some nice low pressure loads that I don't want to compromise, but the Fiocchis are mail order only around here.

Where are you located in pa?

Member Joined: 27 Jun 2005 Posts: 1545 Location: Michigan

Member Joined: 15 Jan 2007 Posts: 40 Location: California

Dave,

Thanks for posting again the Armbrust web site for primer evaluations. Everyone ought to read and HEED the results posted there. Substitutions do matter!

P

Joined: 10 Jan 2008 Posts: 38 Location: midwest

Strictly speaking you’re asking for a direct substitute where there is none...but you know this.

My advise….just buy up a gross of the Fiocchi’s if you love the load that much. Get a gross (5000 count) so the hazmat charge is a bit more spread out. BETTER YET…See if there are any dealers within reasonable driving distance that will get them in for you with a regular shipment. Trap/Skeet/Sporting Clays clubs are great for this! This is what they do…and all they carry. Offer to buy some 4 or 8 lb power kegs of your favorite ‘boom’ stuff and chances are they’ll bring them right in for you with their next shipment. Essentially no hasmat charge. This is how I buy my Rio primers…Cabela’s sure wouldn’t get them in for me cheap, but the trap club 40 miles south of me sure did…especially when I was buying 5000 wads and 16 pounds of ‘PROMO’ to boot…also cheaper than at a “sporting goods” store. These clubs don’t carry every thing from dildo’s to dinosaur eggs like most “sporting goods” stores do. Most “sporting goods” stores make far more money off of ‘Nike’ shoes in a month than they do off of firearms/ancillary items in a year. Very little incentive to help you with your primer problem.

However…if your still looking for a “substitute”….

The primer that has, to date, copied much of the Fiocchi’s characteristics would be the Nobel Sport 209. It is very close and I know shooters that have used thousands of these with little effect to patterns and velocities in loads they used to use the Fiocchi primer. They are cheaper as well.

Trouble is your looking for something you don’t have to order. If you can no longer get Fiocchi’s …I doubt the Nobel Sport is on the menu either in your area. Win 209 primers may come close but it depends on your powder as well…I’ve seen where a Win 209 used with slow, magnum powders leave lots of residue. However, a Fiocchi 616 kicked off a very clean, cyclical burn…but the Win 209 is generally thought of as “hotter”. This is why a few of us with other data, ballistics programs, and various other resources are rubbed a bit wrong with these generalized, narrow, charts.

You see, this is the trouble with much of the “data” for this type of analysis out there. Generally it’s with fast, target powders, low volume hulls….‘worst case’ scenarios. Truth is primers vary from production lot to production lot more than people would like to think. Several years ago Winchester changed it’s 209 formulation. Some of my steel loads fell on their face. Winchester denied any modification (as expected)…but the guys actually making propellants for Winchester (actually ‘Olin’) and for Hodgdon as well, is a company in Florida called “Primex Technologies”. Back when these guys would still talk to people…my suspicions were confirmed. A year or two back Winchester returned to their ‘original’ (or close to it) 209 and my steel loads returned to their fast, consistent, chrony results.

For what it’s worth….

dunk

Joined: 28 Jan 2007 Posts: 115 Location: Grampian, PA

pudelpointer, Grampian is in Clearfield county, "where the Grouse are" Dave, the first load that comes to mind is a 2.5" Fiocchi hull, SG16 wad, 18.5 grains of Solo 1250. It's supposed to produce 7300 psi @ 1165 fps w/ 1oz. of shot. I've been looking and there doesn't seem to be anybody stocking 616's, maybe it's time to move on. I was in Russ Gray's original 16 ga reloading group years back, probably time to join back up.....

Tom,

I use Fiocchi primers in my 12 gauge loads and would like to use them in my 16 gauge loads. From what I have seen trying to compare the data is that Fiocchi usually has a little higher pressure compared with other primers. The best thing is to get the load tested. I just sent two identical loads, one with a CCI primer and one with a Fiocchi primer, to be tested. I am very interested in the results will be.

Brian

If you ever get down toward Harrisburg or Lancaster I can hook you up. Doesn't Greist or someone up there carry them? Most shops down this way have them.

Member Joined: 27 Jun 2005 Posts: 1545 Location: Michigan