16ga.com ~ View topic

This has to be the most exciting time for a 16 gauge shooter to be living in. We have this incredible website to meet and exchange ideas on. We have the 16 gauge low-pressure group who has tested a huge number of loads using a vast combination of hulls, wads, primers, powder and shot weights using both fold crimps and roll crimps. We have Graf and Sons selling Cheddite hulls in plastic and paper and the Gualandi wads. We have Ballistic Products selling the Fiocchi hull and various other 16 ga. items and Precision Reloading selling the Cheddite hull and the Baschieri & Pellagri wad along with other 16 ga. items. And now many of us are waiting with sweaty palms for the new 16 ga. wad invented by Charles Hammack. I may be preaching to the choir here but just wanted to get this off my chest Laughing

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Rick

Joined: 15 Dec 2005 Posts: 59

Well I don't want to rain on anyones parade I love my 16 as much as anyone but with Minn. looking to ban lead shot in the ag zone....which I see as the first step in a state wide ban and other states looking to follow suit. I cant help but wonder if this really isn't the death of the 16. I know there are non-tox options available but the selection is really limited and very spendy more so in 16 than the other gauges. And I just don't think steel shot in 16 is a great option for pheasants. I guess I'll just enjoy it while I can. I've tried stirring the pot on the lead ban on this site and others and it seems most people are willing to just sit back and watch Crying or Very sad

Scott

Member Joined: 02 Oct 2007 Posts: 1975

Joined: 26 Feb 2007 Posts: 190 Location: Washington State

So what kind of smoke and mirrors is Minnesota using for an excuse to ban lead? They don't have any condors, eagles are on the rise, and steel is used in wetlands.

Leaching? What a bunch of hooey! if lead is so prone to dissolving, how is it they still find fully intact 45-70 rounds at Little Bighorn? Not to mention all the lead laying in the ground at Civil War sites. All nicely preserved after more than a hundred years...

Tell them to pull their heads out while they still have air... Rolling Eyes

Member Joined: 19 Mar 2007 Posts: 279 Location: Mn

As I shared on this site before, the state has no real research to back their decision (and it is going to happen in 2011), rather, as stated by a DNR biologist "It just seems like the right thing to do." Imagine what it is like for those of us who also like to shoot the great little 28ga where I recently bought the last of the bismuth available for the gage. I can only hope they dont try and enforce nontox in N Mn as I have recently began to develop an affection for grouse and woodcock that I think could over shadow my love of pheasants.

Joined: 15 Dec 2005 Posts: 59

I live in North. MN also...about 25 miles from SPR310 I have a pretty good idea which game farm he went to. I am sure you can kill a pheasant with steel shot and I've gotten the the same response anytime I've brought it up....my insert a gauge?? kills them dead with #2 steel but what people don't understand is smaller gauges don't pattern the larger pellets as well as a 12 ga and the number of pellets per load is far less then lead. I've shot more then my share of wild pheasants with #6 lead but now I have to use #4 steel for the same effect and if I want to use whats equal to #4 lead i'll be using #2 steel and I dont believe the smaller gauges pattern the larger shot as well. As far as it only being on state managed land in the AG zone if you've ever been to south. MN all the normal person has to hunt are state wildlife mangement areas. I just don't believe/trust the DNR when they say it's only the AG zone they are concerned about once they get their foot in the door it'll go state wide. You can say what you want about the avaliblity/price of non-tox shot for the 16 but it's going to make things alot harder and more expensive for all of us and what are the reloading options? But as was mentioned above the DNR has NO SCIENCE for doing this "it just seems like the right thing to do".....well I can think of alot things that seem like the thing to do but I would probably be in jail for doing them Wink

Scott

Member Joined: 19 Mar 2007 Posts: 279 Location: Mn

Is it Badders near leach lake? I exposed Bria to her first birds after training at that game farm. I tend to believe that they will expand to state wide sooner or later as well. We can only hope someone will produce nontox at a reasonable price. Or I will have to become an outlaw.

Hand written letters and phone calls are effective . GET OUT THERE AND RAISE SOME CAIN WITH YOUR GOVERNING BODY .

I will also share with you folks that we are working on the NON - TOXIC issue as well , and you know what I got a feeling we can come up with something pretty neat given a little bit of time .

Regards Charles

Member Joined: 19 Mar 2007 Posts: 279 Location: Mn

Charles you are wonderful.

I agree with Charles on contacting the governing body.

I have one, and only one, personal experience with the Texas State Legislature. I learned a lot working with the state representative who worked with our group. However, the main thing I learned was, in many instances, the state representatives DO NOT KNOW about the things they are voting on. They listen to the "experts" who testify before their committees. Too often, they don't know what is really happening down in the trenches. They need to be educated. Even the hunters in the legislature may not know all the facts.

Number two, don't just gripe. Have a solution and a justification or stats. that back up your solution. Even if the solution is to leave things alone.

To my knowledge, we don't have a lead shot issue in Texas and I hope we don't go there.

Good luck.

Member Joined: 19 Mar 2007 Posts: 279 Location: Mn

Ok, so can any one give me some stats? I am not aware of any research which supports the lead issue. Yes, we all know lead in excess is deadly, but game birds are not exposed to such concentrations. Give me some ammo and I will be glad to haunt my representatives.

Member Joined: 02 Oct 2007 Posts: 1975

I am not condoning the ban of lead, just trying to prepare for it if it happens. I have contacted the dnr by both email and letters. I have asked for proof from them as to how they are basing there findings on. I have passed what is happening on to all of the local hunters I can. I am urging them to contact the dnr. I also went out to the EPA site to try and find any information on this, to see if there was anything to base there findings on. I could not find any. I also passed this on to the dnr. When contacting the governor or my representatives, I was told that this was not a legislative matter. That is why I urge everybody to contact the governor on his choice for head of the DNR.
I do not see any concerted effort by any of the hunting groups to get involved in this, pheasants forever, the ruffed grouse society or even the turkey organizations.
So, I do not need anybody to tell me to get involved and do something, I am. Nowe it's up to the rest of you. If you are active in any of these groups, urge them to get involved. I for one am giving up my membership in any of these hunting groups. They are behind a referendum that is on the ballet in November to raise the sales tax, I for one think taxes are high enough in Minnesota now.
That's my stand on these issues. What's your's and what are you doing about them?

Joined: 26 Feb 2007 Posts: 190 Location: Washington State

Are you aware that a Chinese company will provide bismuth pellets in a diameter of your specification?

http://www.exportmetals.com/show.asp?id=457

Maybe we should get into the bismuth import business...