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Joined: 05 Feb 2008 Posts: 184 Location: Dover-Foxcroft, ME

I have a .021 "full" M-12. RGLs give mod patterns. B&Ps give full patterns.

Pumpgun and I worked up some 1 oz spreader loads in GLs. We loaded #6 for phez work. We tried fiber wads and cardboard divider inserts. Patterns were cylinder - maybe even more open than that - but very patchy. Big birds could have laughed at us from the center of the pattern.

We next tried polywad spreader disc inserts. These patterns were cyl-skeet in terms of overall dimension. They were also very uniform. Ultimately, I decided they were still too open for me.

Finally, we loaded up some of Lenard Lemke's soda straw inserts. These gave nice IC/LM patterns. This, and the factory RGLs, seemed like the way to go.

Spreader discs will produce a greater degree of opening with tighter constrictions. Seems like every barrel ends up throwing cyl-skeet patterns.

Sam

Joined: 27 Apr 2005 Posts: 380 Location: Northeast Ohio

What's the deal with "Lenard Lemke's soda straw inserts"? Is this something commercially available or just regular straws that Mr. Lemke uses in a particular way and has lent his name to? If so, how do you use them. I might give them a try.

My go to gun is .009 model 12 (16 ga. of course) and seems perfect for just about everything I do (my main activity is low gun skeet). I'm aware that the Poly-wad's work best with tighter chokes, better than with the more open chokes like my .009. However, I bought some poly's with the specific goal of trying to get more spread than my .009 was providing at 7 yards for station eight. I patterned a few (7/8 oz. size 8 1/2 shot) and saw absolutely no difference in pattern size or density. I know 7 yards sure doesn't give the pattern much time to develop. After that testing I decided the spreaders were not worth the hassle at that range out of my .009 barrel.

I tried the same load and barrel at 23 yards and found the patterns to be a bit thinner on paper than I would trust. It seems true from my limited testing that the spreaders do indeed work better out of tighter barrels.

I guess at station eight you're either on or you are not anyway. I learned to hit them better from eight without worrying about the choke. I'm not using the spreaders at all now in my .009 skeet gun. I don't currently have a full choke gun (16 ga. or otherwise) but do have a 12 ga. o/u choked .012 and .022 in which I may find a use for the spreaders some day if I ever get back into woodcock or skeet with it again. I hardly ever use it anymore since discovering the model 12.

What's considered a normal sized spread at station eight range anyway? Without dragging out and examining my pattern sheets, as I recall, my 7 yard spread was 18 inches I think. I hardly miss station eight anymore but I'd take more spread if I could get it. Any ideas?

Joined: 05 Feb 2008 Posts: 184 Location: Dover-Foxcroft, ME

GG,

Best way to get more spread at 8 is to take it as soon as you can do so safely. Cylinder pattern is probably the very best answer for H8L8 taken 1/2 way to the stake.

I think you've figured out that choke is pretty much irrelevant on 8. OTOH, thinking about choke while shooting on 8 is a really good way to miss.

Lenard's technique (dunno where he found it) is to take plain jane thin plastic straws, cut them to a bit less than shotcup depth, insert after shot drop (precrimp station on a MEC). Obviously, use with loads that are not near maximum. I find that the things work nicely in some guns - not much in others. When they work, I see opening of about one nominal division vs equivalent promotional loads. So the effect is not great.

Sam

Joined: 15 Oct 2004 Posts: 787 Location: Indiana

Nah, that wouldn't be challenge enough; I shot it after sundown using black targets.....

Guest

Joined: 15 Oct 2004 Posts: 787 Location: Indiana

I shoot doubles on station 8 with my gun in the clubhouse rack, just point my finger and say "bang"....

OK......
I can't help it........knew a guy who used to just look at birds and drop them dead.....he uglied them out of the air........he had to quit though.......he started tearing them up too bad!

Member Joined: 01 Feb 2006 Posts: 450 Location: Indiana

Bee
When I'm at the skeet range I have not figured out how those guys walk in the fields with their guns sholdered, saftey off, and ready for
birds to take to flight. They say they don't but if a target comes out with a slight delay they wait and call for another target. I tried that once in the field and when the birds got up I wasn't ready, I just waited for more but none came. Old 16

Joined: 27 Apr 2005 Posts: 380 Location: Northeast Ohio

Old 16,

I couldn't agree with you more. As far as I'm concerned the true essence of wingshooting involves a mount and a delayed target. Make a flawed mount and you increase your chances of missing the shot as head lifting, or chasing the bird, or looking at the barrel will be more likely. Even over well trained pointing dogs you are never certain at which point the bird will appear. In the case of waterfowl or doves you still must have a smooth mount when those randomly appearing chances happen. Gun up skeet isn't much like any hunting I've ever done.

Skeet was invented by a bunch of grouse hunters as a means to practice during the off season. They shot it low gun with delayed target releases. That's exactly why I started shooting it too. Then I fell in love with the game and it's been a source of enjoyment in my life for forty years. I would not trade the good times and great people I've experienced on the skeet fields and related wingshooting experiences I've had for anything. It has morphed into quite a different game with the pre-mounted gun and instant target release rules. But, that having been said, I still believe that if NSSA rules were changed to delayed release and low gun for all registered shoots you'd still see the same names at the top of the score sheets after perhaps a short adjustment period. I just happen to prefer to shoot my skeet with a low gun and a delay. Nothing more or nothing less. I don't condem gun up shooters. I've been outscored by many and will be again by many more!! (Although I do shoot as well as some gun up guys occasionally). But that doesn't effect my individual targets and what I do to them!! If you deserve a target you'll break it. If not, it doesn't matter one whit if you started with your gun up or down. I just have happened to learn the game shooting a low gun style and prefer it as a purer form of the game, as it was intended to be shot. I've dabbled in registered skeet over the years and enjoyed it. I was never a champion nor rose very high in class, but it wasn't any fault of my low gun style I believe. It was just me being me.

Just for fun I may start shooting some registered skeet again or perhaps a local league, but I'll do it low gun because I think that's the way skeet was intended to be shot. I'll accept my scores whatever they may be and still have fun. I really have enjoyed the few opportunities I've found to partake in Vintage style competitions shot with low gun and a delayed target release, but those opportunities are few and far between and many are limited to SxS guns only, which I do not own at present. My skeet gun is a good old classic 16 ga. model 12, which I think is about as vintage as a gun can be, and representative of a great era in wingshooting, especially when used in a vintage setting, the way the sport was intended to be.