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Does the placement of a card filler wad affect the performance of the load? I ask this because I like the overshot wad a little better but if it will cause a degradation of the performance of this particular load then i will go back to the under shot wad.

The load in question is the RGL hull, R16 wad, 17.5 gr. Green Dot and a Win. 209 primer. The original load from the 5th Lyman book called for 18 gr. powder and a Remington primer but I was having several FTF's with that primer in my Browning 525 so I called Alliant and their recommendation was to decrease the powder by .5 gr. if I wanted to use the Win. primer.

Thanks for the help.

Guest

Art I have checked a number of loads for patterns and it seems that I get more consistent results using card wads inserted into the wad before adding the shot. When using soft fillers such as puffed wheat/rice or styrofoam discs placing them on top of the shot seems to work best.

Member Joined: 16 Nov 2006 Posts: 1338

Member Joined: 28 Oct 2005 Posts: 665 Location: Louisiana

Art--Mike's mother was frightened by Sherman Bell when she was carrying him Laughing

.......And I believe he's exactly right. No one can tell you what your gun will do with your reload loaded under your conditions----besides it'll be fun.

Ron

OK, I'll go shoot a few and see what happens. What I was looking for was a ballpark answer.

Woodcock, who the heck is Sherman Bell and why was Mike Campbell's mother traumatized by him?

Member Joined: 28 Oct 2005 Posts: 665 Location: Louisiana

It was supposed to be humorous Art. Crying or Very sad

Sherman Bell did a series of articles in the Double Gun Journal titled "Finding Out for Myself"--an excellent series dominated by carefully collected data regarding chamber/barrel pressures, velocities, etc. for a wide variety of propellants, shot types, barrel materials, etc.
My reference to Mike was intended to be an illusion that his mother had 'marked him' with the same inquisitiveness as, IMO, he's our 'local 16ga.' Sherman Bell.

Sorry for the confusion.
Ron

No confusion, I'm just a bit slow on the uptake. Thursday should be the test day. With a bit of luck there won't be much, if any difference in the placement of the wad.

Member Joined: 16 Aug 2004 Posts: 317

I have observed little adverse effect on patterns when using overshot cards. Whether with roll crimps or under fold crimps. Meanwhile others have seen greater adverse effects on their patterns. No doubt the bore and choke of the gun has some impact on performance. This might explain why the loads work fine in my guns and not in other folks guns. Such is the luck of the draw.

So the advice to pattern them for yourself is sage.

As to puffed wheat ir cheerro's etc... these fillers disintergrate on firing and should not have any impact on patterning through any gun.

For fillers I use 28g discs cut out of meat trays -that plastic foam material works great-the trays you'll note come in 2-3 thicknesses ....anyway i like the idea of placing the filler Under the shot but ocassionally had trouble on my MEC 9000 with the disc being picked up by the descending shot/rammer tube. So now I put them on top.As to pattern effect, here's a gut feeling-the 7/8 load patterns better than a 1oz load, and is pretty much impervious to either placement. Ka-blam theory.
Rizzy

For fillers I use 28g discs cut out of meat trays -that plastic foam material works great-the trays you'll note come in 2-3 thicknesses ....anyway i like the idea of placing the filler Under the shot but ocassionally had trouble on my MEC 9000 with the disc being picked up by the descending shot/rammer tube. So now I put them on top.As to pattern effect, here's a gut feeling-the 7/8 load patterns better than a 1oz load, and is pretty much impervious to either placement. Ka-blam theory.
Rizzy

If you are using 1/8" thick or thicker card wads as a filler for loads under 1 ounce, I suggest you simply insert the wads into the shot cup just before you ram it into the shell. The rammer will seat the card wads perfectly into the bottom of the shot cup and will then drop the shot on top. It is easier and quicker. Plus, these thicker, heavier wads are not meant to be placed on top of the shot. They have always been traditionally used as a filler under the shot, even in a 28 ga load.

Only the very thin and light overshot card wads have ever been traditionally used on top of the shot to close the shell mouth of a roll crimped shell. Roll crimped shells open differently than a folded crimp. The shot collapses the thin over shot wad outwards from the center and pushes it out of the way as everything exits the barrel.

These thin wads are not needed for folded crimps and could very well interfere with the sectional folds finding their own level down into the top of the shot column. It is the evenness and uniformity of the undersides of the folds of the crimp that allow the crimp to open concentrically from the center outwards as the shot pushes them out. That is why misshapen and lopsided folded crimps or anything that interferes with a well formed crimp can and will interfere with the shot pattern. the shell opens on one side first which will introduce unpredictable dynamics into the way the shot column enters the choke section and how it exits the barrel.

Thanks 16g Guy- Placing disc into wad prior to ramming, under the shot,
on my MEC9000, the wad rammer tube wants to cut into the foam disc at the bottom of the stroke, and sometimes picks it up, leaving the dropped shot in the tube! That's why I put them on top. I am using only an 1/8" foam disc at the most. But agree bottom's best!
All this will be a moot point soon enough, eh?
Good shooting,
Rizzy
PS Another classic summer wknd in Maine, we're headed to Hookset NH for the New England Sporting Clays Championship. The bitch of it? "Factory only." NSCA Rules specifically allow reloads, but many out of state clubs do not. Take half the fun out of it, willya? Looks like I'll be going through some boxes of Estate 16 Heavy Game Load!! The dreaded Purples-too bad only 1165. Lets see.

I still have several thousand Reminton R16 wads as well as several thousand Circle Fly 28 ga. filler wads to use up. I intend to buy some of the new wads soon enough though. I just can't see myself wasting my older supplies. These older wads have worked so well for my subgauge loads for so long now, I also feel a certain loyalty to them. I've taken a huge pile of game with them and shot countless lines of skeet with them as well. However, time marches on. We must move on too I suppose. At least the youngsters amongst us will not have to resort to some of the practices we had too to keep the 16 alive and fed.

NH Hookset Report, NSCA NE Sporting Clays Championship. Well I was bitching about having to use factory loads but guess what? I won my class with those lil ole Estate 1165 #8's and a few Rem LongRangeExpress's thrown in (7 1/2's.) Go 16!!
Tells you something-if the gun's in the right place, it never takes as much as you think. Rizzy

A gun that fits comfortably and shoots both its barrels exactly where you look are essentially the first and last requirements of wingshooting with a double gun. All else is up to you.